Basic Troubleshooting for Paramount In-floor Cleaning Systems
IMPORTANT- ALWAYS HAVE THE ORIGINAL PARAMOUNT LAYOUT WITH YOU BEFORE TRYING TO TROUBLESHOOTING A POOL
PCC2000 – POOL VALET – PV3-Cyclean
SINGLE PUMP SYSTEM (Very Rare with PCC2000)
Heads not cleaning all over pool.
Main drain is not open to 60 % or more. In floor systems only clean thru the main drain, not the skimmer. The skimmer should be set to just allow the water to go over the weir.
If water valve has a gauge, pressure should be 18 PSI or over, and filter pressure should be no less than 24 PSI and not over 32 PSI.
- A. If the pressures are not right on the water valve or filter, clean the filter and recheck the pressures.
- B. If two or three valves are on the system the second valve should be 15# or higher
When on, and should be at 0 PSI when off. The second valve should come on every 3 to 6 minutes and run for 3 to 6 minutes at which time both valves will have pressure on them. If the pressures are not right the slave valve is probably bad. ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO HOW THE MODULE WAS POSITIONED IN THE VALVE BASE BEFORE TAKING IT OUT. TRY CLEANING THE MODULE BEFORE REPLACING. If a customer has removed the module with out marking how it go back in they can remove the other valve and put water in the center port to see which holes it comes out of in the base. These three holes will be the ones that the tubes on the special module go over.
- C. Other possible problems with low pressure on the valve gauge.
- a. Pump impeller plugged.
- b. Pump basket full.
- c. Air leak at pump lid O-ring or some other place on the suction side of the pump.
- d. Return or spa valve open.
PCC – POOL VALET – PV3-Cyclean
BOOSTER PUMP SYSTEM
Same as above except cleaning filter will not affect the pressure on the water valve.
ONE OR TWO CIRCUITS ONLY OR ONE OR TWO HEADS, ARE NOT CLEANING BUT THE REST OF THE POOL IS CLEAN.
Check nozzles for being plugged or not rotating properly.
- A. When checking for plugged nozzles run the pump after the nozzle has been removed to make sure that the line is not dirty.
DO NOT REMOVE MORE THAN ONE NOZZLE AT A TIME. Each nozzle may be different.
IF NOZZLES ARE NOT PLUGGED AND LINE IS CLEAN CHECK ORIFICE SIZES PER THE PARAMOUNT PLAN.
Pool Valet: 60 GPM per circuit
Each 3/8″ hole is 10 GPM.
PV-3/Cyclean: 60 GPM per circuit.
5/8″ = 20 GPM
3/8″ = 10 GPM
¼” = 5 GPM
PCC: 50 GPM per circuit.
¾” = 50 GPM
½” = 25 GPM
3/8″ = 10 GPM
¼” = 6 GPM
SPECIAL THINGS TO LOOK AT ON PCC SYSTEMS
Fixed nozzles placement and pressure
Down jet placement and angle-
1 When installing or checking a PCC nozzle, always double check the nozzle for the right side and correct nozzle size being open and used.
- When you find a plugged nozzle, or line, always clean out the nozzle and also turn on the pump on that port to make sure the line is free of debris.
- All lines of the PCC system should equal 50 gpm. ¾” nozzle = 50 gpm. ½” nozzle = 25 gpm. 3/8″ nozzle = 12gpm.
- If your having problems with the pool not cleaning check for at least 60-70% open on the main drain and try brushing dirt and debris towards the main drain, if it seems to blow away from the main drain instead of going into it, reduce the fixed nozzle size. This is of course after you have determined that they were facing the proper direction.
ADVANCED TROUBLE SHOOTING PARAMOUNT INFLOOR CLEANING SYSTEMS
Water Valve
- 1. If not working always try to wash off the module to clean off dirt and check for turning by rotating the inside gear.
- 2. If a piston is in the open position this does not always mean that the module is bad. As the diaphragms get old they get weak and some times do not close with out being under pressure in the system.
- 3. The gear that touches the out side gear ring is at the point where the cam that opens the piston is. This is how you can tell which port is the problem.
- 4. A high pressure on one port is an indication of either a plugged nozzle or the wrong nozzle sizing.
- 5. A low pressure on one port is an indication of the wrong nozzle sizing.
- 6. A low pressure on more than one port could be a bad piston on a module, a plugged pump impeller, an air leak on the suction side of the pump, or on a single pump system a dirty filter-no by pass on heater-or some blockage or diversion of water before the water valve.
- 7. Firing order for valve configurations: all valves rotate clockwise
–Six port: Runs each of the zones in sequential order, firing each zone individually for 30-45 seconds (at 18-22 psi.), then raising the next zone running both zones for 5-10 seconds(at 6-10 psi), then closing the previous zone to run the next zone individually for 30-45 seconds, and so on…
–Nine port: This runs the first three zones of the pool on the 4 port control valve (look for the connector tubes on the top of the valve module which tie the three zones together which send water to the adjoining valve), during which only this valve has pressure, then sends water for three cycles to the adjoined six port valve (during which both valves will show pressure, the control valve will be 1-3 psi higher), then again back to the control valve for zones 1 thru 3 again. The firing order will something like: 1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,7,8,9…
–Twelve port: On this system, the control valve is a two port valve containing a special 5 gear module which runs at approximately 1/3 the speed of our standard 4 gear module (keep in mind that the 4 gear modules have five gears on them, but one is not functioning and is offset). Look for two sets of “jumper tubes” on the top of the module, going outside of the gear plate assembly. This control valve sends water to each of the two six port modules adjoined to it for approximately 10-12 minutes, running those 6 zones for up to 3 cycles or more, then transferring to the other six port valve to do the same.
MDX/Main Drain Performance
In order for Paramount cleaning systems to fully clean the pool, it is imperative that the main drain system in the pool be operating properly. Make sure of the following:
- 50% or more of the filter pump suction is dedicated to the MDX/Main drain. This can be accomplished by reducing suction to the skimmers.
- Confirm that the drain line is clear and that water is moving freely through the drain and the drain line.
- If a debris canister is present on the deck (ADR), make sure the bag/basket inside of it is clean, and that the balance/equalizer line from the ADR to the pool is functioning properly and water is being maintained above the internal clear lid at the same level as the pool. A full canister bag means the drain cannot draw enough water which can lead to a clogged drain. Consumers should always check and clean the canister bag anytime they clean their skimmers.
- If the drain is clogged, you may either have to remove the cover and clear out the drain, or you may be able to clear the debris by isolating the drain line at the filter pump and blocking the secondary suction in the pool using a garbage bag or equivalent.
Kurt's Paramount Pool and Spa Systems' Blog 
I have the 6 port system and my system is not working. I removed the Paramount Module and all the gears look good and rotate freely.
When I run my system the pop ups by the main drain stay open. What is odd is that when I removed the Paramount Module I ran my filter system and the pop ups by the main filter popped open. the gauge on the cleaning system was a zero. I thought my cleaning system and my filter system were completely separate??
Please let me know what steps I need to take to troubleshoot this system.
Thanks,
Barry
Barry,
It sounds like you have our PCC2000 system, and the two nozzles you see up while the filter pump is running are the designated “fixed nozzles” that are part of our “debris collection zone”. These nozzles are not part of the cleaning system that runs with the “water valve” that contains the gear module you are referring to. These two fixed nozzles stay up continously and are designed to send a current water and debris continously to the main drain on the pool floor.
Now, what I don’t know is if you have a seperate pump that operates the cleaning system water valve, or if the filter pump is running the cleaning system. If you have just the filter pump running your system, you’ll need to close off all but the return line from the filter pump return that is designated to send water to the 6 port valve, plus keep a little bit of water streaming to the “fixed Nozzles” I described earlier. The fixed nozzles only need enough water to gently push water to the drain, and therefore only need to have their valve opened partially. You also want to make sure you filter is very clean to ensure it is operating efficiently and allowing water to flow through it freely. When operating, the valve guage should have at least 18 psi, but no more that 25 psi, showing on each zone of nozzles, and the valve should cycle from zone to zone every 30-50 seconds.
If you have a second pump whose job is to run the cleaning system valve, then you must make sure that pump is timed to come on for a minimum of 6 hours a day and coincide with the operation of the filter pump. Once again make sure the filter is very clean.
In both cases, make sure you have designated enough suction to your main drains (our MDX drain if your pool has one) to ensure adequate debris removal effect.
The best advice I can give is to have a pool professional who is well trained in the operation of our systems review the operation of your pool and advise you on the proper steps to see that it is working properly. You can contact our main office at 800-621-5886 and let us know where you are and we’ll give you a list of dealers you can contact in your area for assistance.
I have a 6-port Paramount in-floor cleaner in a pool and spa. The spa is elevated. Water is siphoning from the spa to the pool. The in-floor system is on a seperate pump and plumbing. I took the module out, which alowed air into the lines, and the siphoning stopped. (I wanted to be sure the siphoning was not through the valves in the main pump.) I have cleaned the module, but once I run the system (removing the air) and turn it off, the siphoning returns. The siphoning is not fast enough to readily see; after a half hour or so the loss of water in the spa is noticable.
Any ideas beyond a module replacement?
Thank you for your time.
Mike
I’ve got a pool valet system where a lot of the cleaning jets stay up and running all the time. I’ve taken apart the 6 port module assembly…the problem is that the upper round flat rubber gaskets are worn out. (the bottom ones seem fine)
can you direct me to where I can purchase the round gaskets? a lot of site sell the entire 6 port module for $180 and up.
seems kinda pricey since all I need are 6 rubber gaskets.
would calling the main office help? do you guys sell parts, or just complete modules?
thanks for your help
Cyrus
wait a sec…after taking apart another piston, I realized that what I thought were two rubber gaskets are really supposed to be a single rubber diaphragm. (they look like two gaskets when they’re broken)
so, any help locating just the rubber diaphragms for the pool valet?
thanks again,
Cyrus
Cyrus,
I’m not sure in what part of the country you live, or how old your Pool Valet is. But I would strongly recommend that you acquire a new module. We have made numerous improvements to most all of the components, and it is very likely that the piston assemblies in your valve have been modified (unless you module is less than 6 months old). You can contact our office at 800-621-5886, and ask for customer service. They can help guide you to how to best acquire the lastest version of our module.
Thanks for your question!
Mike,
First, has your pool always had this problem, and how old is your pool?
To simplify, I’ll give you all the possible scenarios. First, there should be a “check valve” installed in the pipe coming from your valve and going into the spa. This would have been provided by the builder during construction, and could be of any number of brands. Our valve module is not designed to completely prevent the backflow of water coming from raised features, and it is necessary for the builder of your pool to have installed a check valve in-line for the zone (s) going into your spa.
If you find out that a check valve is present, then it is likely malfunctioning and you’ll need to have the checking mechanism serviced or replaced. If one is not present, then check with your builder or a service company to see about having a check valve cut into the line that comes out of your cleaning system valve and goes into your spa.
I hope this helps! And thank you for your question.
Dear Kurt,
My pool was built in 97 with paramount system. My owner manual does not say it is PCC or Vantage. Recently, one nozzle came out off the floor due to pressure. I checked and found the orginal builder used putty to glue the two hole nozzle to the body. Can I use epoxy putty to put them back? There is a ring installation tool listed in the manual (part no. #5-9-3219). But I can not find it on the paramount website. Is this kind of system too old? Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks
I typed the wrong email address. Here is the correct one.
Dear Kurt,
I have a 6 port Pv3 system that I’m using with the new Pentair SVRS Intelliflow pump. Every time the Pv3 system cycles to the next station, the pump alarms and shuts off. Have you have any issues with this before? I have a call in to Pentair too but thought I’d try you too.
Thanks
Jeff,
In conversations I have had with many Pentair representatives, I have been told that the new SVRS Intelliflo pumps use similiar diagnostic and programing systems as their Intelliflo VF pumps that have been out for a couple of years. Let me first say that the entire series of Pentair’s Intelliflo pumps offer numeous advantages and savings in operation, as well as set a new standard for pump flexibility and efficiency. That said, the Intelliflo VF and VS+SVRS may respond adversly to the changes in flow and pressure created by the operation of an infloor cleaning system. We have many builders who have successfully utilized the Pentair Intelliflo VS (4×160) with our cleaning systems. You will still want to discuss this with the folks at Pentair.
Cyrus,
I have the same problem with my 6 port Pool Valet. The rubber cups are cracked allowing water to pass thru causing the heads to stay up all the time. I have been searching for the cups and so far, no luck. If someone knows where to purchase them, please reply. As per Cyrus, I do not want to spend $200 for a $0.50 rubber cup.
Thank you,
Steve
Kurt, 2 items,
1) I would also like to buy the diaphrams only, just like Cyrus above. Is there a way to procure just the daphrams? (My moduel is working just fine. 2 Diaphrams seemed to be damaged, I’ve made a temporary work around, but wish to replace all 6.
2) Mike’s Syphoning problem is probably the result of the “valve actuator” (Jandy or other) not being set to completely close off the inlet/return. When actuators are reinstalled after winterizing the torque pressure on the screws impacts the closign aligment ever so slightly which creates this problem. Another possiblity is the valve gasket is worn and there is back flow across the gasket. I’ve had both these scenarios happen to me over the years.
My 6 port paramount system keeps on stopping on the same head and will not rotate past. I have taken it apart several times and manual advanced the unit. It then rotates around until it gets to that same unit again and stops.
Help,
Toby
I am replacing the modules on my two 6 port paramount valves. One valve has 6 open ports while the other has 4. Two of the ports have plugs in them. Is there a particular alignment involved in replacing the modules? Also, how long do these things last?
Thanks,
Matt
Hello Kurt,
This is an awesome blog and I’m glad I found it!
I have the PCC 2000 floor cleaning system with the 6 port module. I have recently replaced the shaft that runs through the center of the module from the impeller up to the pause lever. The ‘kit’ I bought had a new pause lever gear that I installed at the top of the new shaft. After putting everything back together I had noticed that the system no longer cycles. Upon further review I saw that the first gear (I believe labeled ‘A’) has its teeth worn down and the new pause lever gear is no longer engaging this ‘A’ gear. Do you know of anyone that sells either the ‘A’ gear alone or maybe the entire top plate that contains all of the gears?
I would like to avoid paying for a whole new module as I have recently replaced ALL of the port diaphrams (Note to everyone else: NEVER move the pop-up heads from their current location; I blew out the diaphrams because I moved a head that was in a 2-head zone into a single-head zone. Not a big deal until you realize that the opening on the 2-head zones are smaller, this increased water pressure blew out the diaphram. Unfortunately I had rotated the module onto that same zone 5 more times before I realized what the actual cause of the problem was, but I’m real good and relacing diaphrams now!) My local pool store sold the diaphrams individually for those that were looking to replace a few of them.
Additionally, the 2 heads that are near the drain, should they be aimed directly AT the drain, or slightly off to the side or….?
Thanks again!
Lance
Hi Kurt,
Glad I ran into your blog! We have a 6-port Paramount system, circa 1993. The debris canister is leaking into the deck and needs to be replaced. I know we can purchase the complete debris canister, including the deck ring, deck lid, etc., but I could not find instructions online of how to install it. My husband and I are DIY veterans, and would like to do it ourselves. Are there installation instructions available? Is today’s canister about the same overall size as the ones from 1993?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Maggie
HI, WE HAVE A 6 PORT MODUAL IN WHICH THE DIAPHRAGMS HAVE SPLIT (AFTER 3 YEARS USE) WHERE CAN WE GET REPLACMENTS IN EUROPE (FRANCE). THE AGENT IN SPAIN WANTED NEARLY 400 € FOR THE REPLACEMNET MODUAL !! CAN ANYBODY HELP??
I have a small pool/spa that is about 6000 gallons. I have the six port control valve and four pop-ups. The four pop-ups stay up as long as the pump is running. The control valve seems to be turning okay. I took it out and made sure it was clean and rotating by hand. Pressure at the control valve is 0 psi. Pressure at the pump filter is about 25 psi. This is with the skimmer off and the drain full on and the pop-ups full on and all other jets off. What should I do next to determine what the problem is?
Maggie,
I am copying your message to our technical department at Paramount’s corporate office. Jim Serkland is familiar with the canister you have from the early 90’s and can best address your questions.
If your debris canister (ADR) is mounted within the deck; or even more so, if it is anchored into the beam of your pool, replacement will be more of a challenge. I am certain that it can be done.
Geoff,
I have forwarded your request to our director of international sales. I work for Paramount in the Southcentral US, and I am not familiar with our distribution channels in Europe.
When I have more information I will get back to you. Thank you for your question.
Dan,
Your problems could stem from a number of possible issues.
First, has your system worked correctly in the past, with the nozzles cycling instead of staying up all the time? And if so, do you recall if the pressure on the gauge was more than 0 when it operated correctly?
Second, your 0 psi reading is a problem, it should be reading 18-22 psi in order to have the correct flow and pressure to clean and rotate properly. Of course, the nozzle sizing has to be correct also. There is a chance that the pressure gauge is not functioning properly.
I am copying your information to our technical service department at Paramount’s headquarters, who may also be able to provide some guidance.
Thank you for your question.
Matt,
If you will look above at the troubleshooting information you will see that I have added the page from our installation guide showing the proper alignment of our 4 port and 2 port valves. I hope you find this helpful.
Your water valve modules should last for many years. To increase their longevity, it is a good idea to remove them periodically, perhaps once every couple of months, and rinse them down, removing any debris that may build up on them.
Thanks for your question
I have a paramount cleaning system in my pool built in 2005. There seems to be a lot of air in the system. The one in-floor cleaner by the drain stays up all the time and air is bubbling out of it.
The basket filter in the deck of the pool with the clear cover, fills with air the longer the pump runs. Any ideas?
To accurately assist in diagnosing whats happening with your pool, I’ll need a little more information. First, which of the Paramount Cleaning systems do you have: Concrete- PV3, PCC2000 or Cyclean? Second, does your cleaning system run on it’s own pump…seperate from your filtration pump? Third…when you look down inside your debris canister in the deck (what you called the basket filter) is there water over the clear, internal lid?..there should be.
Initially, it sounds like you may either have a blockage or leak in your main drain plumbing. But this assumes you have 2-3 inches of water on top of that clear lid in the canister which is provided by a balance line that should be plumbed into the pool from the canister. This line is a 1 1/2 inch pipe that should come through the wall of your pool about 12 inches or so below the water line right in front of where the canister is in the deck. Have you checked your filter pressure and is your filter clean?
The pool was installed by paddock. I am not sure what type of cleaning system it is. My pool is pebble tec. It does run on it’s own pump,there is water over the clear lid cannister, and a level line about 12 inches below as you described above. The basket is clean but I have not looked at the filter for the pool in a few months. Pressure is good not high or low.
I live in Phoenix Arizona. Thanks
Mr. Lugo,
We do not make the diaphragms available as a stand alone part. At one time we did sell the piston assemblies that include the diaphragms, but with recent advancements in the design of the components and more precise assembly processes which are are difficult to replicate in the field, we no longer sell those piston assemblies. You can call our main office, 800-621-5886, and see if our tech department has any ideas of where there might be a company that still may sell those parts.
Parmount 6 Port and 3 + 1 port. Both modules brand new.
7 cycles. Emptied and refilled pool. Worked for a day or so.
Now, cleaner stops at one infloor circuit. I have disassembled,
reassembled; cleaned; rechecked everything. I don’t have pressure gauges on modules. I am frustrated. Could plugged lines to the “pop-ups” be the problem? How would I chekc the plumbing to the individual circuits/popups?
Thank you
Leaking out of the water valve. System doesn’t have pressure valve. 1995 pool built. Does o ring need to be replaced?
6 port module replaced recently. No other problems.
I have a six port system and want to know how the pop-ups should be pointing in relation to each other, or does it really matter? In other words, should they all be set to say, 12 o’clock or is some other configuration preferable? My pool is a simple rectangular shape and the heads are in the center of the pool; pretty evenly spaced over 24 feet. Thanks!
I have the same problem as Valerie.
My system is a PCC2000 circa 1998. I “inherited” it when I bought the house in 2003. The in-deck canister is plumbed to both the skimmer and main drain. There is no separate pump. The water level in the pool is slightly more than halfway up the skimmer. The balance line is open and there is several inces of water above the canister lid.
My symptoms are, with the skimmer fully open, I can see there is no air in the canister. When I start to close the skimmer using the flapper valve, air bubbles appear under the canister lid. THe more I close the skimmer, the more air appears. With the skimmer fully closed, the air looks like a rolling boil and within a minute the water drains down to the top of the basket. Leaving the skimmer closed results in air bubbling from the return lines.
I suspected the line connecting the skimmer and canister, but I bought a 2″ plug and plugged the skimmer side of the canister. The symptoms were the same as a closed skimmer. I can’t say the plug was airtight, but it shouldn’t have let that much air in so quickly.
Even if there is a blockage in the main drain, which I believe I have (more on that in a bit) I don’t see how air is getting into a “closed” system unless there is either a breach somewhere (in the canister?) or the system is designed to pull air in those circumstances.
If it is my design then I can’t use the system. Closing the skimmer halfway as recommended, put me right at the tipping point of sucking air to the return lines. If the skimmer should becaome even partailly clogged, as when a storm blows through or wind decides to blow stringy pollen and seeds into the pool, then I risk losing prime at the pump. If this happens when I’m at work or asleep, I could burn out my pump.
As far as the blockage goes, I believe the main drain grate is deteriorated and breaking up because I am seeing bits of flat plastic in the strainer basket. Do you sell replacements?
Linda,
Sorry for the delay getting back to you on your problem. It sounds very much like you have a blockage, or improper nozzle size in one or more of the lines. When you emptied your pool, did you remove the nozzles and replace them? If so , did you have a copy of the original engineering diagram for your pool to know how to reinstall you nozzles? Ultimately, you’ll really need to get a pressure guage to look at what pressure reading you are getting when your system locks up.
You can contact our customer service department at 800-621-5886, they can help you find where to purchase a pressure guage. The $20 or so it costs to get a couple of pressure guages will be well worth the investment. Our part number for that pressure guage is 005-302-3590-00. What we need to find out is what pressure reading you get when the system locks up, and whether or not it stops on the same zone each time it locks up. Also, when it is cycling from zone to zone before it locks up, what is the pressure reading and how long does each cycle run before transitioning. We should see about 16-24 psi per zone when on a zone, and the cycle should last 30-45 seconds before transitioning to the next zone. Anything outside of these parameters would indicate a problem in nozzle sizing or a blockage somewhere.
Yes, a valve o-ring is definately in order. Please contact your local pool store and ask them for a Paramount Water Valve O-ring, part # 005-302-0100-00 (Base O-Ring). If you have trouble tracking one down, please call our customer service department at 800-621-5886. Do not lubricate or coat the new o-ring with silicone or any other type of sealer. The o-ring should seal properly without added sealers. Good Luck.
No need to syncronize your nozzles. In fact, over time any effort to do so is futile, as each time your pump that operates the cleaning system shuts off, the zone that was firing at that time will be the first zone that fires when the system turns back on, therefore that zone’s nozzles will rotate one position past the others, and so on… Paramount does not design any need for synchronization of nozzles into the operation of the system. The most important factors for good cleaning are,
1) adequate time running the system, which may vary depending on the time of year and the volume of debris going into the pool, but plan on 1 hour per zone per day and a starting point.
2)Pressure and Flow…As I stated in an earlier reply, we need 16-24 psi per zone and a cycle of 30-45 seconds per zone. (During transition between zones, the pressure will drop in half for about 5-10 seconds). If your pressure guage on our water valve is not working, you will really need to get it replaced. Any variance from these parameters is a sign of a problem somewhere in the system.
3) Adequate suction from the main drain system is critical to cleaning a pool. Nozzles move debris, but the drain actually REmoves it. Always make sure the 1/3 to 1/2, or more, of your filter pump’s suction is allocated to the main drain (preferably our MDX/MDX2 debris removing drain) and that the debris canister (if present) has ample water flowing through it.
Frank,
First of all, if you get a chance, please let me know where you are located. And…does your pool lose water regularly and if so, how much per day/week. I presume that when the air comes into the canister, that the water on top of the clear canister lid remains in place???
Your problem does appear to be related to a main drain blockage. However, you may also have a leak somewhere between the main drain and canister. First, is your main drain a single or multiple drain? Second, do you know if there is a “Vent Line” plumbed into your main drain line as a vacuum breaker to prevent drain entrapment. I don’t believe builders were using these at the time you pool was built, but throughout the mid and late 2000’s, many builders we work with used and vacuum breaking vent line as an added layer of anti-entrapment protection. If a vent line is present (you may see a stand pipe plumbed outside the pool somewhere, or a pipe(perhaps with a grated cover) somewhere on your tile line if this is present), you can temporarily block it off and see if this relieves your air problem.
Kurt,
I’m in Columbia, MD.
The pool is a Maryland Pool, but they have not been of much help. They say first of all they don’t retain engineering drawings of pools that old. Secondly, for any Paramount related questions, they refer me to Sweetwater Pool, who also have not been much help. Sweetwater says waht everyone else says – main drain blockage but are silent on the air issue. They also say they are too busy to diagnose and/or fix the probelm.
I did seem to be losing water, although I have not seen any around the pool. A few years ago, I tried the evaporation test with a bucket of water and it seemed that the levels inside and out were the same. However in recent years I seem to be losing as much as 1/8 per day. I chalked that up to overnight evaporation in the spring because I heat the water and I can see clouds of vapor in the morning. In summer I though it was the sun evaporating it.
I also noticed tapping on the skimmer/canister section of the deck with my cover removal rod, it sounds hollow in some areas. A stress crack also appeared a few years ago along the edge of the skimmer to the back edge of the deck.
Yes, when the air comes into the canister, the water on top stays in place. I even carefully palced a few drops of dye into the water and saw no movement, so I assume the lid is tight.
The main drain is a single drain.
I have seen no vent line or overflow lines in or around the pool.
Mr. Smith,
I have forwarded your information to our regional manager in the Northeast, Richie Sedell. His email is richs@1paramount.com. My hope is that he can assist you with locating a service company that can better diagnose your situation.
Kurt,
Thanks for the referral to Rich. I believe he might have seen this before. He’s going to contact Maryland Pools and hopfully they will contact me about a repair.
However I now have another problem and some questions.
I had noticed in the past that my “fixed” nozzles seemed to be out of alignment. One seemed to be pointing somewhat to the left (rotated counterclockwise) of the main drain not the right. They are supposed to be set to create a counter-clockwise vortex, correct?
A week ago the other one seemd to have rotated slightly counterclockwise also.
Overnight, the wind blew some leaves and debris in the pool. As you know from my other probelm, I need to keep the skimmer fully open or else I will lose prime on the pump due to my air problem.
Well, the skimmer did it’s job well and pulled everything into the basket which severely reduced water flow from the skimmer which pulled in a ton of air into the cansister which in turn was blowing a lot of air out the fixed nozzles.
The nozzles this morning had again rotated, this time about 30 degrees counter-clockwise and are now pointing nowhere near the drain.
So I have two questions. The first is how can “the fixed” nozzles rotate? And the second is, could the air have anything to do with it?
Thanks,
Frank
Frank,
Your fixed nozzles should not be moving on their own. We make the “fixed” nozzles movable due to the need to be able to adjust them once they are in the pool. Given the age of your system, the fixed nozzles in your pool are likely from a period before we included a special gasket that now helps better hold the fixed nozzles in position. Over time, and based on any number of factors, it is possible that your fixed nozzles are not holding their position as well as they should, and that the air coming through your system is rattling the nozzles enough that they are working their way our of position.
Correcting the air problem would definately help reduce the opportunity for the nozzles to rattle out of position. You could also check with Maryland Pools regarding replacement of those fixed nozzles to our newer style, which were introduced 5 or so years ago. The nozzles look the same, except that there is a white gasket above the spring with notches that help hold it in place.
Good Luck,
Kurt
A question on PCC rotating nozzles (single pump).
In the past, I’d had some problems with these and moved a couple around before I realized that they are not all the same. I’m going to pull the ones I think I moved and check them.
The pool has 3 sets of nozzles that operate in pairs and 3 that operate one at a time.
If I understand your post above, the singles should be 3/4″ (50 gpm) and the ones that operate in pairs should be 1/2″ (25 gpm + 25 gpm = 50 gpm), correct?
That is correct. Each zone/circuit is engineered to operate at around 50 gpm, which is acheived when the nozzle sizes are set accordingly, and the pressure on our water valve is in the range of 18-24 psi will operating on a single zone.
We have a 6 port water valve put in when our pool was built in 1995. We want to replace the module and the lid. Our housing does not have a pressure gauge as I see in the replacements online. Can we use this newer one or do we have to look for a replace without the gauge.
Kurt,
I recently had a problem with what turned out to be multiple broken laterals and large amounts of sand blowing trough my paramount pool valet system.
The pool was losing water daily after the replacement of the laterals and several of the nozzle heads were not popping up.
So… long story short, I removed all of the nozzle heads as well as the 6 port module to clean out the sand. While doing this, I noticed that several of the retaining rings were cracked and I’d like to replace them.
Do you sell them separately ? ( the nozzle heads are in good shape)
More importantly, one of the threaded collars broke while removing the nozzle head. I’m not too keen on draining the pool and doing a major repair here since I will likely have the pool re-surfaced in the next year or two and I’ll do it then.
Is there are work around or temporary fix for this such as reattaching the broken piece with a waterproof epoxy ?? or some sort of retrofit or emergency collar that can be used ??
Thanks,
Kurt in Florida
I have the 6 port cartridge. All jets seem to be working correctly. My question is that my pause lever will only pause while certain jets are on. I have been trying to pause with just the wall returns on so i can manually vacuum the floor while the jets are off. Poss. problem and troubleshooting? thanks.
Kurt,
I purchased the fixed nozzles you suggested – the one with the white ring. It came with 3 nozzle sizes – 1/8″, 1/4″(pre-installed) and 3/8″.
Your guidance on orafice sizes for the rotating nozzles would mean I need 1/2″ openings but that size did not come with the nozzles.
Should I use the 1/4″ that’s already installed or put in the 3/8″ ones?
Thanks,
Frank
I have a new pool with the PV3 system. The pool was just started up and was running when I came home. The heads come up in zones like I understand they are supposed too. I don’t understand how they are supposed to rotate. Probably a dumb question but I can’t find any literature about how they rotate. Are they supposed to rotate while popped up and spraying water?(they don’t) Or do they pop up, spray water in one direction then on the next cycle rotate? I can’t really tell by watching. thx in advance. -Howard
Howard
PV3 nozzles are very unique in that their patented design allows them to rotate without the use of springs, ratcheting systems or any moving parts. As the nozzles rise when water begins flowing to them from the Paramount water valve, they will rotate slightly until fully extended. Once up all the way, they stay in one position until their zones cycle is complete, after approximately 30-45 seconds, and then retract, during which they will rotate slightly again. On average, it takes approximately 15-18 times for a nozzle going up and down to complete a full rotation. The direction flow of the water coming out of the nozzle’s orifice is was creates this rotation. We have engineered the angle of that flow so that at the prescribed pressure and flow created by your pool’s pump and controlled by our water valve, the nozzles rotates in the fashion we need it to in order to clean your pool.
There are many advantages to this “no parts” technology, which we have had since our company’s first generation in-floor nozzle over twenty years ago.
Kurt,
Any answer to my question above about the fixed nozzle orafice size?
Also, your answer to Howard was interesting concerning the PV3 nozzles. Since my PC2000 nozzles are quite old (~12 years) and they have grooves worn into the tracks designed to make them rotate, I have been considering replacing all of them.
Can I use the PV3 as a direct replacement for the PC2000s?
Frank
Sorry for the delay Frank,
I just got my laptop back today from our main office after two weeks in repair, and I’ve been unable to get all of my correspondence handled via my iPhone.
PCC2000 nozzles are of a very different size and the bodies they go into are different, and therefore not compatible, with our PV3 nozzle. That said, PCC2000 nozzles are also unique in that their larger size affords them more room to operate with less wear than their smaller competitors. Another difference in PCC nozzles is that they have greater flow capacity…over 2 times that of smaller nozzles. This equates to fewer nozzles in the pool. Ultimately, each style nozzle and system design is unique to the way the nozzles work in order to maximize the cleaning capabilities of each or our In-Floor Systems.
Frank,
On the fixed nozzle question,
Fixed nozzles utilize smaller orifices because their purpose is different from that of rotating nozzles. We only want them to move enough water to gently direct debris to the main drain. to better manage this, we prescribe the smaller orifices according the the distance from the fixed nozzle to the drain. Most pools, where each fixed nozzle is between 5-8 feet from the drain, would use a 1/4 inch orifice. If the space from each fixed nozzle to the drain is in excess of 8 feet, we would prescribe the 3/8 inch orifice. If less that 5 feet, then the 1/8 inch orifice. Once installed, you should only allow enough water to the fixed nozzles so that they raise up fully. A good test is to use your pool pole and push on them. It shouldn’t take much more effort than the weight of the pool and you arm to push the fixed nozzles down.
I hope that helps.
You had a customer, Toby (7 june 2009) submit my exact problem but I can’t find an answer to him. “My 6 port paramount system keeps on stopping on the same head and will not rotate past. I have taken it apart several times and manual advanced the unit. It then rotates around until it gets to that same unit again and stops.
Help,
Toby”
I have replaced my the module and it does the exact same thing. System pressure at the filter has not veried since installation in 2002 (17-22 psi).
The system is on a single 1 1/2 hp northstar (hayward) pump, the main drains when dirt is swept by sucks it up and the skimmer also seems to be working well.
First, which of our systems is installed in your pool (PV3, Pool Valet, PCC 2000) What kind of filter do you have? And when was the last time you cleaned it? Also what is the pressure on our water valve. Filter pressure is not as telling as the pressure going to our water valve is. There is invariably a drop off of pressure after the filter, and the less clean the filter, the greater the pressure differential between the filter (higher) pressure and our water valve (lower) is. Does the valve/system stop rotating on the same zone in the pool each time? If it does, then more than likely there is an obstruction of some type in either a nozzle(s) or it is not properly sized and too restrictive. Have you had any work done on your pool that required the removal of our nozzles in the floor of your pool?
Finally, check to make sure the pause switch on the top of the water valve is set to “Run”, and you may also want to check the underside of the valve top to see that the pause switch is not broken or malfunctioning.
Hello Kurt,
I am so glad that I found your blog. Thank you for providing excellent advise. I have owned the PCC2000 for more than 5 years and every year I learned a few things about how to run, operate and maintain the system. My system is a PCC2000, built in 1999, has two fixed nozzles, 7 rotating nozzles. It has only one pump (high head). and the Filter system uses DE. The water pressure is a little weak both on the filter (20 psi) and on the valve (18 psi) – I know – I have air leak somewhere but i dont think it created the below problem:
In the last two years, it has problem of sand collected exactly in three places near the nozzles that run in pairs. I used a vacummn machine to vacumm the sands, it is white type of sand. I am not sure where the sand comes from. Could it be from the DE filter? Why can the pcc2000 push the sand to the drain? I checked several times and the rotating nozzles work and rotate correctly.
Any help would be appreciated !
Most of the time, unless you live adjacent to a nice white sand beach (at which point I’d be insanely jealous) the white sandy like material in your pool would be coming from the DE in your filter. This would not be an issue directly attributable to the PCC2000 cleaning system, but would obviously lead to a less than clean pool.
I don’t know if you have a “push/pull” backwash valve or a “multi-port” backwash valve, so what I am about to cover may or may not apply. If you have a push/pull backwash valve on your pool filter, then it is not unusual to get a little bit of “blow back” of DE back into your pool after back washing. If you have a multi-port backwash valve, and are going through the proper backwash/rinse/filter sequence when backwashing, then you should not be getting this same DE “blow back” into your pool. In either case, the possibility that one or more of the DE filter grids has a tear or other type of damage, which is leading to the continual return of DE to your pool, must also be considered.
Quite frankly, I am a little skeptical about the pressure readings you are reporting (I know you are being truthful, I just don’t know if the equipment is registering properly). Normally, there is a greater pressure difference between the filter pressure guage and the pressure guage on our system’s water valve. This could also be a sign that there is a filter grid problem, and the damage to the grids is allowing a greater flow a water through the filter than would normally pass through if the grids were intact.
Recall from my blog that you should be getting 18-22 psi and running from one zone to the next approximately every 30-40 seconds. Is this the case? I would also urge you to make sure your fixed nozzles are not set at too high a pressure. They should be aimed toward the drain (slightly offset to the left for each nozzle) and not be pushing much more that the amount of water it takes to raise them up. Sometimes, when the fixed nozzles are set at too high pressure, they can create a barrier to debris getting into the drain. We want those nozzles blowing very gently.
Anthony,
Sometimes on older pools, our pause switch may not be engaging properly onto the valve module gears. You can order, either from a local pool store or contact our customer service department (800-621-5886) a new pause switch which, once installed, should resolve this problem.
Petr,
I apologize for the delay in replying to your message. I am going to handle your request a little differently. Please email this information to our director of international sales, Bill Burt (bburt@1paramount.com). He takes care of the Austrailian business and can better answer your questions regarding how systems are designed and installed by our dealers there.
Regarding the MDX drain…Our current MDX2 Rectangular drain was designed in accordance with a series of standards put into place with the passage of a US Federal Law, the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act. Prior to this law’s passage, our MDX drain (the version on your pool) exceeded all existing standards for safety here in the US and abroad, and is still considered one of the safest and most effective debris removing main drains available. This new US Law enacted standards which were comprehensive and challenging for manufacturers to meet, and in nearly every manufacturers’ case, required major redesign that to some meant less effective aeshetic and performance results. In markets where this law (VGB) was not enacted, our dealers have chosen largely to stay with the original MDX design due to its favorable apperance and performance.
Kurt,
Which style of cleaning system (Pool Valet, PV3, PCC2000, Cyclean) do yoy have on your pool…and how old is it? This will help me formulate an answer for you.
Thanks
You can use an updated Paramount Valve lid with pressure guage on top of your current valve. It will work the same.
thanks
Kurt,
What happened to the online Paramount parts store?
I used to order from there, but now all it shows is a page of links to other stores who don’t inventory your parts, or at least only a very few parts.
Frank
Hi Kurt,
I have a push/pull backwash valve, so according to you answer it may just be normal with some DE is blown back out and become sand after a backwashing. It is just weird because it just happened in the last two years but not before that, and even if I vacumn them, it will appear again next day without any backwashing. I checked the filter grid, and they are intact. As a matter of fact, they are only one season old… May be this is a problem of the DE filter which is manufactured by Pentair…
Thanks for you advise.
Kurt,
Apologies for not including the pertinent info in my first post.
My system is a Pool Valet and is approximately 10 years old.
It is a 6 port system.
Interesting new development. When I run the system with the nozzles installed (except the broken one mentioned above), I seem to have a significant leak.
When I de-pressurize by removing the nozzle heads – the leak is considerably less.
I guess I’ll need to get the system properly pressure tested to isolate the problem.
Kurt in Florida
I have a PCC2000 system inherited from previous homeowner. There is one nozzle that does not pop up. I need to remove it to check for blockage, but don’t know how. Please help. Thanks.
I have what seems to be a simple problem. I have the PCC2000 system with the older style nozzles. I want to ‘pull’ the floor nozzles out to clean the years of debris out of the holes and around their rings. I have the right tool (just purchased a new one) and using it on the pool pole, I just can not get the nozzles to budge. Any suggestions on how to loosen the PCC 2000 floor nozzles (perhaps using a screwdriver or some other tool). I can’t get enough torque using the hollow pool pole and wonder if there is something I’m missing? Is there a ‘professional style’ adapter I should use and if so, which one? Oh, and yes the pool is full and I’m trying not to have have to drain it (30K gals). Your site is most helpful, thanks for assisting me in any way you can.
I purchased a home which has paramount infloor cleaning system. I noticed that only couple of the heads are popping up and others are not. I have a elevated spa whos pop up head wouldn’t work either. I don’t know which system I have. I had local repair company come and give me an estimate he said I need to replace gear module and it is 6 pipe/zone. The system I believe is 3 to 3.5 years old. (House was built in late 2006).
The question I have is how do I find what type of system I have and is it normal to have module change in this time frame?
Thanks in advance for taking time to respond.
@Jeff,
I just went through this myself and I had exactly the same problem with my fixed nozzles.
Unfortunately I found no easy solution. I had to dive down several times, with the tool not attached to the pole, and use considerable force to get it to budge.
Then I had to dive several more times to yank it out. It was practically cemented in with fine sand and grit. Be sure you’re turning clockwise to remove it.
Hope that helps.
Frank
Your best bet is to attach a spray nozzle to the end of a hose and tape it, using duct tape to the end of your pool pole. Direct the hose using the pole, to each nozzle and let the spraying of water from the nozzle clean out the space between each nozzle and the body/sleeve it is in. Once cleaned out, the tool should work fine to remove the nozzle. Also remember that the large PCC nozzles rotate in and out in reverse direction…lefty tighty, righty loosy.
There should be a name for the system type on the top of the nozzles in the pool, either “PV3”, PCC2000, or Cyclean. Though your pool is relatively new, it may still have been installed with am older system of ours
called Pool Valet…whose nozzles will have no name but will have two swirls on the top.
What state are you in? And does your floor system run on the filter pump or it’s own dedicated pump seperate from the filtration pump?
Finally, you might want to ask your technician to clarify why the valve module needs to be replaced. Usually, a module only needs replacing if the gears are slipping or irreparably jammed, or if one or more of the modules pistons are stcking open. Keep in mnd that you could have a line blockage (which would be apparent via high pressure, in excess of 25 psi on our valve), or a dirty filter which would create low pressure and could prevent the module from rotating properly. Please review the technical section of my blog if have more questions regarding the proper operation of our valve.
I have a pool built around 1998 with a Paramount in-deck debris canister.
At the bottom, there are two lines. One (further from the pool) goes to the pump and one (towards the pool) is unused. The unused line is drawing air (sometime a LOT of air) from somewhere.
I have been able to stop it temporarily by putting in a winterizing plug. However, the plug has a tendency to work loose and the problem returns.
I want to seal off that port with a threaded plug. Both Paramount service companies in my area (zip 21045) say it’s a standard 2” threaded plug. I previously had bought a 2” plug from Home Depot but it was too small. I bought another one from one of the local service companies but it’s also too small. I can place the entire plug straight into the hole and still wiggle it side to side. Obviously the threads don’t grip at all.
So my question is, is this really supposed a standard 2” fitting or maybe I have a non-standard fitting on the canister?
The other Paramount service company in the area gave me a Paramount part number – #005-252-1605-00 – but I don’t want to order it if it’s just a standard 2” plug.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Frank
Hello, I was wondering if you could direct me to how I would obtain a set of blue prints for my 1994 pools plumbing. I have a 6 prt in floor system, my ADR, when I removed the lid under the water, I removed the bad, and one of the two lines in the bottom looks like its plugged pretty good with rocks and small gravel. I tried to remove it with a long bar, and cleared about two inches down of it, but its still pretty solid, I do not understand how this happened, I just moved in and it had a good bag, no tears or holes. I thought maybe it had been sealed on purpose, but can’t figure out why they would have done that either. A schematic would sure help me figure out what line it is but I dont have a clue as to who I would ask. Thanks in advance for any help or reply
is it important to orientate the pv3 6 port water valve base…and how do you do it?, the diagram on this page is not clear…I can not follow it (besides being blurry) at all…I do not see what difference it makes since the system cycles…my unit makes noise when it runs, I took it out to clean it and found alot of play in the main gear under the pawl…for some reason I think that the gears do not mesh properly…the unit is 6yrs old…it seems like the same 2 nozzles are always in the on mode…HELP!
I have a 2 year old PCC2000 system, and the floor jets are operating as expected, but the down jets on the walls of the pool don’t seem to be working. We used Maryland Pools, but as the other poster mentioned, their customer service leaves a lot to be desired!
We have several “dead zones” that (I believe) are the result of the down jets never working. There are two parts to my question:
(1) What part of the cycle has the down jets kicking in, as is there a way for me to pause the cycle so that most of the water pressure is going through those down jets?
(2) Any thoughts on causes? Blockage perhaps?
Everything else works fine. Love the system, Paramount’s customer service, and this blog!
Hi, I have a Paramount 6 valve system , pool was built in 1993, house was my parents, don’t know if it is operating right , it has 6 pop ups 4 are by the center drain north , south, east, west of the drain the other 2 are much farther away from the drain say east and west of it . the 2 by the drain say east , south stay up at all times while the others pop up and cycle , is this normal pool store said it might have a bad module , the pop ups are the large ones , thank you for your help
I have a PV3 system on it’s own pump with the debris canister. My pool builder placed the wrong size cap on some of the heads according to Paramount’s plans and so I would like to replace those caps with the correct size. How do you remove the caps?
Randy,
Sorry for delay on getting back to you on this. The ADR has two ports at the base in the event a builder needs to use a second port to either tie the ADR to a different pump or to increase the flow through the ADR in the event they’ve connected two of our debris removing drains to it. However, it is extremely rare that a builder would actually use both ports, and in fact most (if not all) of the time, one of those ports at the base of the ADR is capped off and not used. Therefore, I would not be concerned about the debris that has settled into that capped port. As long as the other port is drawing water back to your filter pump, you should be fine.
Thanks for your inquiry.
It is not important for the module that goes into a 6 port valve base to be set in any specific position, as long as it is fully seated in the base and secure. The issues you are referring to regarding play in the gears may be caused by some wear on the valve, as well you may have one or two of the pistons not fully retracting due to fatigue. You should consider contacting your original builder or a local retailer that stocks our valve modules for a replacement. If you have trouble finding a source locally, you can contact our main office at Paramount, 800-621-5886, where one of our customer service reps can direct to a supplier who can offer you a replacement module. We have made many enhancements to the module that will greatly improve your experience for years to come.
Thanks for your inquiry.
Mike,
I will refer your inquiry to the Regional Manager for Paramount in your area. He will be specifically familiar with how Maryland plumbs their PCC2000 systems. Builders have a number of options as to how they can configure the downjets. In the meantime, I can help you if you can answer one question for me. Does your PCC2000 system operate on it’s own booster pump or directly off of the main filtration pump?
1) If your system works off a booster pump, then the downjets are likely plumbed to a dedicated return line on the filtration system, and you’ll want to make sure that any other return lines are choked down to allow enough pressure to be dedicated to the downjets for them to work.
2) If you system works off of the main filtration pump, then your downjets will likely be plumbed into one of the zones of the water valve itself. This means they will only “fire” when the valve rotates to that zone that the downjets are plumbed to. On a six zone system, this will happen about once every 5-6 minutes.
I hope this helps.
Anthony,
I sounds like your pool store is right on target with their diagnosis. It sounds like your module has some of it’s “pistons” sticking open, and it is probably time to replace that module. A new module will have considerably better components for you and make all the difference in the operation of your pool’s cleaning system.
thanks for your inquiry.
Andy,
This is a little tricky, as we generally want to make sure those caps do not come off easily. The process for removing the caps without doing damage to the nozzle stem is a little involved, but it you are up to it…here it is:
-First you will have to remove the plastic cover over the base weight of the nozzle then remove the weight itself. To do this you’ll have to push in all four prongs holding the weight and cover on while simulteaneously pulling the weight and cover down and off.
-Remove the stem from the nozzles outer sleeve. The cap is attached to the stem.
-Using a hack saw blade, carefully cut the cap vertically along the side of the cap where you’ll see a small gap in between the cap and stem. This gap can be seen from the underneath part of the cap and is only about 1/4 inch wide. You’ll cut until you’ve made it through the plastic cap, but be sure not to cut into the stem itself.
-Use a flat head screwdriver to pry off the cap by wedging it into the seam you created with the cut made by the hack saw blade.
-Re-assemble the nozzle and snap on the correct nozzle cap. Make sure to firmly snap the nozzle cap in place. It can only go on one way. I use the back of my fist, with the nozzle upright against a solid surface to do this.
You are now ready to re-install the correctly sized nozzle into your pool.
Thanks for your inquiry.
Charles,
Sorry for delay getting back to you.
You’ll need to acquire a nozzle removal tool. You can check with a local pool retailer, or contact our main office at 800-621-5886, where a customer service rep can direct you to a retailer in your area that has our parts in stock.
Thanks
I have a 6 port module and was wondering if it’s possable to to repair Instead of replace . I’m the type that likes to tinker with things . Replacing is always a last resort . It seems the module hangs up on one set of jets . When I removed the module I first noticed something rattling around inside . Also all the valves return the the base when lightly pulled on . All but one that is. Are they spring loaded and and maybe that one spring has broken and is floating around in the unit ? Any input is greatly appreciated .
I have a PV3 Cyclean System installed in 2001, it is a 6 port module with 12 nozzles in the pool. My problem is that 2 nozzles in the deep end of the pool no longer pop up and 1 also in the deep end lost its cap sometime ago and I found it in on the pool floor, the cap had a crack on the side of it but the nozzle still would pop up but now it no longer pops up. The other 9 stay up all the time now until the pool shuts off.
I took the module out and the gears seem to be ok, but I noticed that 2 of the pistons seemed stuck and a couple were extremely loose. I got the 2 loosened up some and put it back together, but it didn’t help anything.
I have installed a new Pentair Clean & Clear CC150 Pool filter that made no difference either. The old one developed a small crack by the drainage plug.
Before I spend the money for a new module and O ring, I would like some input from you to see if you think a new module would solve my problems.
Also my present gauge on my existing dome is almost unreadable. Will a new gauge fit my present dome. Also what should the pressure be on the gauge? Mine barely gets into the green zone.
Thank you for any help you can give me as I am on a fixed income and have to do all my own repairs.
Hey Kurt,
I have a 6 port paramount system. I have a problem with the pool valet pop-ups not falling back into the floor. They stay up even after the filtration system is turned off. If I push them down they work for a day or two then stick again. Any I can pm the pop-ups so they will fall back down & rotate?
I have a 6 port paramount 2000 control module that needs its diaphrams replaced. 2 are ripped but I figure I should replace the others while its apart. Money is very tight (I’m out of work) and cannot afford the whole module. Is there any way I can get just the diaphrams? Thanks
Were can I purchase diaphrams for a 6 port control valve?
No, I don’t want a replacement module. Getting it to work using
‘O’ rings and springs was a chalange but I still want the diaphrams
for a backup. Besides, $200 for a module seems like a lot when
all I need is the diaphrams.
Thanks,
Frankly, your best bet is to replace the entire valve module. Paramount does not sell the piston assemblies or diaphragms for older modules…as there have been many improvements that increase the reliability of the performance and do not fit these older modules.
Frankly, your best bet is to replace the entire valve module. Paramount does not sell the piston assemblies or diaphragms for older modules…as there have been many improvements that increase the reliability of the performance and do not fit these older modules.
PC2000 system installed December 2006 with new pool. Debris is not moving from MDX through system to debris cannister. I have spoken with Australian rep in charge of in-floor-cleaning Paramount systems and he thinks we have blockage. Center of pool 2.1 mt deep and he suggests we remove top of MDX to clean out. In reading manual we are unsure how to remove top and would appreciate advice. We have someone who will dive down to unscrew but unsure which part. Also [pool system will be switched off] is there any pull/pressure once top of MDX is removed and danger for person underwater removing this part?
We have manually cleaned pool and put hose into MDX system several times over past month, with little effect. Setting at pump is also directed towards cannister for maximum pressure. Still no debris moving through system to debris cannister.
Look forward to hearing from you, thanks.
I recently bought a house from foreclosure that was built in 2006 in Maricopa Arizona. The pool is a 10,500 gallon pebble tech PC2000 with two steps and a water fall feature. I am lucky in that the previous owners who built the pool by Paddock left the entire book including the engineering design with all the specs. It looks like it has a total of 6 zones. It has two 1 HP pumps and the six port water valve. The cleaning system doesn’t currently work and I have read many articles on this system including here. I cleaned the 4 filters real good last weekend. I also removed the module from the water valve and cleaned that as well. The gauge is broke and is stuck on 15 PSI, even when I removed the upper half of the water valve so I know I have to replace that. My filter PSI is running around 10 PSI after cleaning. Seems low. Looking at my schematics it appears that the filter pump has nothing to do with the cleaning system nozzels and water valve? Is that correct? It appears my other pump handles that along with supplying the water to the water fall. Can I separate the water valve module to check the diaphram and psitons? There is also a ball valve on the filter line. Another valve for the filter says return line and skimmer. What does the ball valve do as it has no writing or label to advise me. I slowly moved it to the other direction and my filter presuure rose from 10 PSI to 30 PSI. I got nervous and moved it back. The other pump seems to have nothing to do with the filter and has a valve with one lable saying water fall and the other end says cleaning system. I assume this pump feeds the water supply to the water valve. It also has a ball valve but no label for what its purpose is. I am new to pools so any help in getting my pool running correctly would be appreciated. I have the MDX drain system. I do not appear to have any air leaks. my water leveler doesn’t seem to work as i have lost about 6 inches of water in the last month and had to refill it recently. I thought it was supposed to keep the water level at the approriate level? Is it normal to lose this much water in a month or does this indicate an under ground leak? HELP!!!
Hi – i have a 6 port PC2000; pool installed in 1997; module replaced 2009; valve and pop-ups are working fine – the valve body / PVC pipe joints (all ) have begun to leak; there is no leak where the top joins the base at the tightening band – any thoughts? – thank you
I am looking to install the Paramount floor cleaning system. My pool will be a rectangle 7 meters long (which includes a 1.8 meter beach) by 3.6 meters wide. The pool designer recommended the PC2000 and the pool builder recommended the PV3. What are the advantages / disadvantages of these systems and which one would you recommend. The pool will be near some big trees, but will have a pool cover. I want to have the simplest solution that will give me the least hassles. We have requested both designs from paramount, but I am still unclear on which system is best to use ? Do you have any advice for me ? Many thanks.
Hi, I am requesting your help to resolve a noise problem. It is so bad that we can not enjoy sitting by the pool with the waterfall on or the in-floor cleaning system on.
The pool was built in 2001 by Paddock Pools. It has the Paramount PCC2000 cleaning system. The house sat empty for about 2 1/2 yrs, before we purchased it. So we don’t know any history about the pool’s operation.
Whenever the pump is running for the in-floor cleaner or waterfall, it is extremely noisy (the main pump is always quiet). I believe that it is noisy due to low back pressure caused by poor design or installation.
Noise is there when the in-floor switches between ports (pressure drops to about 5-8 lbs) then after the switching is complete pressure goes to 18 psi and system is quiet.
Noise is there whenever the waterfall is running. (Piping is all 2″)
It has one sand filter connected to the 2 hp pump for the drain and skimmer. It has a separate 2hp pump for the PCC2000 in-floor cleaner and the waterfall.
The in-floor/waterfall pump only has the skimmer and pump baskets inline. No filter was installed on this pump system.
One Control Module (2 valve – 5 gear) was replaced. (Pressure was always on both module 6 valves)
2 of the Module 6 valves were replaced. (springs and diaphragms were bad)
Replaced the o-rings for all valve controls, skimmer basket lids & the backflush valve.
System does not appear to have any water leaks or air leaks. (no bubbles return to pool and no air to bleed out of sand filter)
All of the floor pop ups work normally. (pop up/down and rotate)
Pumps were transferred between the systems and no change in the noise levels.
The new Module 6 valves were transferred between the in-floor cleaning pods and no change in noise level.
My questions are:
1. Can low back pressure cause the noise?
2. Should I install a ball valve (in front of the valve to switch between the in-floor cleaner and the waterfall) to be able to give the system the needed back pressure?
3. Should the in-floor/waterfall pump have a filter installed instead? Which will give it some back pressure.
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Gary
Hello Gary,
From you description it appears your installation is right on target with Paramount’s specifications. Keep in mind that at the time your pool was built, Paddock Pools and Paramount were actually affiliated and had been for many years (not the case anymore), so your installation was executed by a very experienced company.
As far as your noise is concerned: I presume your equipment must be pretty close to your pool for you to be hearing the noise from the cleaning system pump. A 2 hp pump might be a little more pump than is needed for the floor system. However, the pressures that you are indicating on the floor system are right on target (if not on the low end) of what we want. I can’t tell from your description if you are trying to run the waterfall and floor system simultaneously or if they operation seperately. If you are attempting to get water to the waterfall and to the floor system at the same time, then I would say that is the source of your noise. Running at 2 hp pump to both components will reduce backpressure and cause that cavitating sound in your pump’s impellar. All is running well, but the noise would be significant.
If you haven’t tried running the floor system on its own and shutting off the waterfall, please try that. The pressure will be higher, but as long as it is below 25-26 psi, all should be fine. If you want to lessen the noise, you could drop the hp of your cleaner pump to 1.5 hp. We don’t usually prescribe a 2 hp pump for our cleaning system, as it will deliver more water and pressure than our cleaning system needs alone. When the pool was built, they may have been attempting to combine the functions of the waterfall and floor system, and though it might work, they may have not foreseen the noise factor.
Paul,
I apologize for the delay in responding to your request. Both PCC2000 and PV3 come with a 99% cleaning guaranty and the same warranty on it’s components. Both systems are designed to remove both large and small debris when combined with one of our MDX series drains (either MDX2 or our new MDXR3)and Debris Canister. We offer an alternate “channel debris drain” call Buzztop as well. Both systems operate using the same valve system and debris canister and drains. The only difference is the layout of the nozzles and their size. Some prefer the smaller sized nozzles and unique operation of the PV3 system, whose nozzles have no moving parts to wear out. Others prefer the fact the PCC2000 usually prescribes fewer nozzles on the floor of the pool. These nozzles are larger and can deliver more water. They work in conjunction with the “Debris Collection Zone” which directs debris to our MDX (2 or R3) or Buzztop drain.
Either way, you can rest assured that your pool will operate with the most complete and thorough cleaning and circulation system available for a swimming pool.
I apologize for the delay in responding to your request. I would advise that you have a service company check the glue joints for your water valve. You may need to have the valve base replaced if the original glue joints are deteriorating. A service company may first attempt to apply a two-part sealing compound (epoxy) to the joints and see if that stops the leaking. Otherwise, it may be necessary to replace and replumb the base of the valve.
Steve,
I hope at this point you’ve had a service company help you understand what’s going on with your pool. Everything appears to be plumbed and operating properly from your descriptions. 10 psi on a clean filter with a 1 hp filter pump is perfect. No need to worry until your pressure comes back to 20 psi or higher. There are two returns to your pool,from your filtered pump, one to the fixed nozzles on the floor that shoot water toward the drain, and the other goes to your wall returns which should be installed with downward facing return fittings. When you shut off the wall returns, as you described when you moved the valve and the pressure went to 30 psi, you were directing all the water to the very restricted fixed nozzles. You don’t want to do that. Keep enough water going to those fixed nozzles to raise them up (they are on either side of the MDX drain), and make sure they point toward the drain (you can turn them by hand in the pool when they are raised up). If you have found that any of the pistons that operate in the water valve are not retracted when you remove the module from the valve, you may need to replace the module. All else should be fine. Thanks
Cathy,
You may have already resolved your situation by now, however you’ll need to acquire a special screwdriver to remove the drain cover. It is a Torx T-25 security screwdriver. We sell them with our drains, and you should be able to purchase one with direction from your local Paramount rep in Australia. Please make sure your filter system is SHUT OFF when diving to remove any drain covers. As long as the filter pump and all other pumps are off, there should be no residual vacuum on the drain. You’ll want to make sure there is no concrete or residual construction debris in the system that could be causing a permanent partial blockage. You’ll likely see whatever is blocking the drain immediately beneath the cover once it is removed. Good luck and please be careful. Thank you.
Hi Kurt, Thank you for your response to my earlier post on 4/9/2011
I was only running either the waterfall or the in-floor cleaning separately, not both at the same time. But the noise from the pump was always there running the waterfall and there during cycle time for the in-floor cleaning system.
The pump system is about 30 feet from the pool area, but it was installed next to the house and a wall, which caused it to echo loudly into the patio/pool area.
I may look into replacing the pump to the 1.5 hp size. But I did install a ball valve in-line before the switching (in-floor/waterfall) valve. When it is partially closed, the noise level drops to almost normal pump running noise levels. The waterfall does not appear to have lost any flow volume.
I put this in mainly for test purposes, but if it will not hurt the pump motor, I could leave it in as a “workaround repair”.
Thank you,
I have a new, un-installed Pentair CC150 Cartridge filter. I have removed the large black retaining ring as instructed. However the upper half or lid to the filter will not come off. I do not want to force it for fear I will damage it. Is there some reason that you are aware of that the upper half (lid)will not slide up and off the lower half. Any tricks to getting it off. The equipment manual does not offer any help. Thanks for your consideration and time.
I have a PCC 2000 with a six port and a 3+1 port. Worked fine for 10 years (with the normal replacements). Now, as it cycles through, it always gets stuck on one port. I can restart and it will cycle through until it gets to that port and then it gets hung up there. I have replaces both the 3+1 and the 6-port….same problem….it is not a “pause” problem….The heads go up and down fine…..need some help….
Thanks,
Mike
I am having a problem with my paramount 6 port module. Some of them pop up and work for a minimum amount of time , the pumps psi gauge runs at 28 when I first start it but after about 30 minutes it raises to above 35 psi. Do I have a faulty module or is there another reason the pumps psi is so high? I have cleaned the filter and no leaks anywhere. Can a faulty module cause pump psi to raise this high or do I have more than one problem? Frustrated in Florida
Hi,
I recently had the problem of excessive air in the debris canister resulting in bubbling in our pool return lines. We have a new pc2000 system and run 2 separate pumps for cleaning and filtration.
Our PB has put a valve plug in one of the ports in the debris canister (not the skimmer side) and this has resolved the problem, however I am not sure whether this is considered a long term fix or am I better to ask the PB to look for a possible partial main drain blockage causing the original problem.
My PB and are talking through the plumbing design for my in floor PV3 and MDX3.
There are two large “Live Oak” trees that reach over my pool and several times a year they drop loads and loads of leaves and litter and once a year a load of 0.5″ diameter acorns.
One of your employees mentioned to always go with 3″ suction from the MDX3 to the Basket and another told him no, 2.5″ is all your ever need and if you go with 3″ you will need to run your pump at higher speeds forever in order for the 3″ pipe to have enough water velocity to work with. Either way there will be only 45 degree turns between the sump and the basket.
If 3″ is overkill then I really dont want to run the pump to burn more electricty than needed. If with the heavy litter I should really use 3″ then Ok.
Your thoughts.. 2.5″ or 3″?
Oh no.. I am putting my sophomoric “joe engineer” hat on.. What about middle ground. 3″ from the sump through two 45s so 12-18″ vertical up the 9′ wall where it down sizes to a 2.5″ so that higher water velocities are achieved at lower pump speeds.
This way generous 3″ 45’s will prevent twig binding on the first lower turns until they hit the 3-2.5 reducer which is ~the same restriction or less than the 3″ 45’s. This still leaves the two more 2.5″ 45’s near the deck surface and canister as possible bind points but seems like it provides at least some middle ground.
Your thoughts?
Thanks!
Hello Kurt,
I believe I have a 5 circuit in floor cleaning system and I have a single pump set up. I live in Arizona and my pool is a standard rectangle at about 11,500 gallons. My problem is; very recently the system will get stuck in the same place and will not rotate to the next circuit? I have taken apart the gear module and and everything seems to be in order? I did purchased a new gear module and installed in case I missed something and it did not change anything; still getting stuck in the same place? I made sure my valve to drain ratio was set properly and I currently have about 29 psi of filter pressure? What are your thoughts, appreciate any help or guidance? Thx.
I have 16000 gal. Inground with cartridge filters and in floor paramount cleaning system. Can I convert to sand filtration? Tired of filter cleaning trying to get the filter chamber resealed and $500 for new cartridges every 2 years.
I have a problem with our six port module, (004302440800) one of the ports does not retract, whatever spring system is inside the individual port seems to be broken, is there a way to replace this or do I need to buy a complete 6port module ? I have not been able to find any reference to the internal workings of the individual ports.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Sam, I’ll have to refer you to the Pentair equipment website for information on your filter. Paramount does not manufacturer this product. http://www.pentairpool.com
Can you check the pressure on the valve at the time it is getting stuck. The probable causes for this are 1) a blockage in the line that is causing the valve to stop rotating, or 2) the gears may be slipping. However, if it is sticking on the same zone each time it rotates, that is a sign of a blockage in the line going to that zone.
First, the module will not cause an increased pressure in your system, even if it is malfuncitoning. It is designed to fail in the open position, meaning that if it does malfunction, pressure will go down not up. That said, you may have a problem with the nozzles either not coming up or a blockage in your lines going either to the valve or to a zone from the valve. What kind of filter do you have, and how long since you changed the elements in it if it a cartridge filter?
Adrian,
It sounds as though your builder installed what we call a vent line off of that secondary side port of your canister. These provide an added layer of anti entrapment protection in addition to the debris drain (MDX) and it’s secondary drain on the floor. I can only speculate as to why it was allowing air into the canister, but one possibility is that there may be a partial blockage in the suction line from the drains to the canister. Another possiblity is that the vent line may not have been plumbed deep enough to prevent air from drafting in even during normal operation. That said, as long as you have two drains in the floor of your pool, plumbed in accordance with our instructions, the vent line is not a required component.
Overall, when considering the normal velocities we encounter in most drain systems for our products, 2 1/2 inch suction from the drain to the debris canister is more than adequate to work efficiently within the range of flow and velocities we encounter, and keeping within acceptable efficiencies for energy use, etc. However, 3 inch plumbing will cause no negative effect on the debris removing capability of our system. The key to adequate debris removal is assigning enough flow (minimum 40 gpm, ideally 60-90) to pull debris through the openings of our MDX(version 2 or R3) debris drain system. The plumbing is secondary to the velocity of water at the opening of the drain. Once the debris has passed through the openings, the velocity is faster in the plumbing and will have no trouble making it to the canister whether using 2 1/2 or 3 inch plumbing. Just make sure you keep your canister bag clean regularly during heavy debris periods. Thanks,
Check you nozzles in your pool for any blockages that may be causing back pressure and restriction. Water valves work hydraulically based on the flow running through the valve. Also, check and make sure your filter is very clean. Do you have a pressure guage on the water valve itself? You’ll want to see what the pressure differential is between the valve and the filter. If the filter is clean, the difference shouldn’t be more than 5 psi. If it is more, you may need to clean your filter. Otherwise, check the nozzles on the zone that is sticking and make sure that no debris is blocking them.
No problem converting to sand. Just make sure you purchase a High flow or push/pull backwash valve for your filter. Conventional, top mounted sand filter backwash valves are very inefficient hydraulically, and will diminish the efficiency of your pumps output.
How long have you had this module? It may still be under warranty. At this time, Paramount does not make the individual piston assemblies available for purchase or installation.
Hi, I have a PCC 2000 and noticed that water leaks out of the top of the water valve (through the RUN/PAUSE switch). Is this normal?
Good morning
I have a pcc2000 fixed head.I was trying to adjust the direction of the spray and push in the center of the head and popped out the center plug (with tabs) and turned the head and sprung the pop up head. What are my options? I have the removal tool.
Thanks for your help
Dave
I have a nine port Cyclean System. Can you tell me exactly what the 4 port multiport tube assembly does in the 3+1 module? Does it cause the valve in the center of the tubing (tubing spans three valves) to open three times in a row or does it allow all three valves to open at the same time. If it does neither of those two, what is its purpose? Given that they are positioned centered over the open port, surrounded by two blank ports (and with rib cut outs between the open ports and the two blank ports, there shouldn’t be any difference between allowing the valves to fire in sequence or allowing them to fire at the same time or just allowing the center one to fire three times. I don’t understand what the tubing is actually doing. The reason I ask is that I believe I have a defective base unit. One of my blank ports does not have any rib cut outs (as shown on the diagram you include above). Rather there is a cut out the other blank and another open port. The effect is that water flows to two ports at the same time (one feeding the other six port module).
Hi Kurt,
I have in floor pop ups on 3 steps of my pool using a pcc2000 system. Recently one of the second step jets pop up when the first step jets pop up and also the 3rd step jets pop up when the second step jets pop up. Previously each group of pop ups from each step would rise in succession. What could be causing this ? Thanks, Adrian
I recently replaced my 6 port module. The 1st one lasted about 7 yrs. Everything seemed to return to normal operation. I then replaced my Super II pool pump and also re-plumbed my system do to the fact that I also have solar panels on the E side of house and the pump equipment is on the W side. There is a long run (probably 85 feet) which required a 1 HP booster pump. I was talked in to a Pentair VS 3050 and was told I wouldn’t believe the savings on electricity and it was sufficient to run everything. Know my pop-ups which used to cycle every min. or so would not cycle for about 2.5 mins and the flow was insufficient. I was getting about 6 PSI at the module. Since I bumped the speed up to 2750 RPM everything seems to have returned to normal pop-ups cycle every min. and I now have about 11-12 PSI. Has anyone else had this or a similar problem?
I am trying to replace a 6 port module base and watched the How To with Jimmy video that shows how to do that. As suggested in the video, I purchased 2″ PVC internal couplings (nipples) at a local pool supply store, but the couplings do not fit snug in the sch 40 2″ PVC pipe. The pool supply store is the only place I was able to find 2″ internal couplings, and no hardware or plumbing supply store around here (Austin, TX) seems to carry them. I assume if they don’t have a snug fit I shouldn’t use them. Do you know where I can find 2″ internal couplings that fit snug in sch 40 PVC pipe?
Thanks, Greg
I apparently have a leak in the pipe leading to the port that keeps water over the clear lid in the debri cannister. This pipe lies under a one ton diving rock and would be hard to repair. Can i use the lid o ring and silicon seal it and not have to have the water above the clear lid. will that work?
Can I use one variable speed Intelliflo pump to operate the pool/spa and Cyclean in floor cleaner?
One of your competitors claims theirs is more efficient because you don’t need a separate pump for the floor cleaner. Thoughts?
Thanks!
A small leak from the run/pause switch is not a major problem, though it is not normal. There is a small oring in the pause switch assembly that has likely either broken or moved out of position. You can replace the assembly by either contacting a local retailer or service company, or call Paramount at 800-621-5886.
As long as you have all the parts (nozzle, head and stem with spring, and the tab on the top of the nozzle) you can reassemble the nozzle and replace it. You’ll have to remove the nozzle’s main body from the pool using your tool. Turn it clockwise a quarter turn to loosen it and remove it. Then reinstall the stem, first replacing the tab into the nozzle head and inserting the stem while holding the nozzle assembly upside down. Turn the stem clockwise once you’ve fully inserted it into the nozzle head, making sure that the hole of the stem matches up with the hole of the nozzle head that has the reducer insert installed. Oncy you’ve reassembled the nozzle, push the nozzle up and turn it back and forth to insure it will be easy to adjust once re-installed. Now you can re-install the nozzle into the floor body by using your tool to position it and turn it counter clockwise to tighten it. Then turn your filter pump on and manuever the nozzle head into position to point toward the drain.
First, the tubing is there to cause the three pistons tied together to open simultaneously. This improves the efficiency of transferring water from the 4 port valve to the six port valve. If the module is properly aligned with the valve base, then there is really no obvious effect of the tubing, however by opening all three pistons together, we reduce the friction loss created by transferring water from one valve to the other. I suspect by your description of the valve base that your builder may have installed at 3 port valve base instead of the “3+1” base we normally prescribe. Unfortunately, if this is the case, then you may need to have the valve base replumbed with the correct style of base. I’d advise that you contact our Technical support department at 800-621-5886, and discuss your situation with Jim there. You may want to take a picture of the valve base and have it ready to email to him so he can better evaluate your situation.
The 1 1/2 hp whisperflo is likely inadequate to operate the system since you’ll need water for both the fixed nozzles and the floor system simultaneously. You’ll need to dedicate all of the return water for the pump to the PCC system in order for it to have any chance of working. However, if the filter is at all dirty, then it will be difficult to maintain the 20-22 psi we’ll need to operate properly. Do you know if the wall returns/downjets are on a zone of the water valve? If so, I’d advise simply upsizing your pump to a full rated 2 hp whisperflo. If the downjet returns are on their own dedicated line, I’d advise that you go to a seperate floor system booster pump and use the skimmer as the source water for that pump.
I’m glad to hear that you are enjoying your system. First, it sounds as though you have very good flow from your filter pump that is creating more than enough suction through your drain. Sometimes, a small pocket of air that is created any time you remove your lid to clean out the canister bag, will grow while the pool pump is operating. It is frequently thought the the amount of air is growing when in fact the air is expanding under the vacuum created by the pump trying to pull water through the drain line. If you find it difficult to remove your lid while the pump is running and the air pocket is growing in your canister, then I’d say your not getting more air, but instead the air is expanding under vacuum. I’d check to make sure your drain is still fully free of any blockages as this could create restriction that would allow that air pocket to grow. One other possibility would exist if you have an ozone system on our pool that draws from the suction side of the pump. Sometimes air from the filter will push back through the suction lines when the pump shuts off and cause air to accumulate in the canister. However, given the distance you indicated from you pool to your equipment, I’m not too concerned about that being the problem.
Our valve requires Schedule 40, 2 inch PVC pipe…Schedule 80 will also work.
I’ll have to refer you to our technical support team at Paramount (800) 621-5886 to answer this question. Thanks
Keep in mind that a floor cleaning system requires a minimum of 50-60 gpm at 60-70 feet of total dynamic head. This means you will have to operate a variable speed pump at a flow rate/speed adequate to provide that much water flow. A variable speed pump can operate at lower speeds, but the output is lower as well. So indeed you will need to operate the Intelliflo VS 3050 pump at a minimum of 2800 rpms in order to acheive the flow rate and pressure needed to operate our floor system correctly. Thanks.
This is a complex yet very important question, Samir. In order for a floor system to operate properly, you must not only have enough pressure to operate the nozzles correctly and move debris, but also have enough suction from all the debris removing components to remove the debris. Our system can operate on the filter pump just like any other competitors system. It is our ability to work with a seperate pump that creates the most dynamic cleaning environment for a pool and eliminates one of the major, historical complaints about infloor cleaning systems. This complaint is that the in floor system’s operation is always dictated by the cleanliness of the filter. When you remove the floor system nozzles and valve operation from the filter pump, the filtration system operates at lower pressure and higher flow, increasing its efficiency and extending its operation between servicing. It also allows more water to flow through the Paramount drain and canister as well as through skimmer(s) because the filter pump isn’t tasked with the burden of pushing water through nozzles that will create excess back pressure and reduce flow. Due to the unique design of our valve which allows us to run without a filter when tied to a skimmer for suction, operating a floor system using a two pump configuration greatly speeds up cleaning and reduces the complexity of the systems operation by allowing the filtration pump to be set one time with regard to suction and return flow, plus we still get the benefit of surface circulation via the wall returns sending water to the skimmers continuously. The end result is faster cleaning, and you actually get to use your variable speed filtration pump as it was designed to operate. You can set a slightly higher flow rate during the cleaning period when the seperate floor system pump is running, then ramp it down when the floor system pump is off. It is really the best way to go.
Make sure you have our most recent Canister lid o-rings (it has a square-ish profle is a center groove). A small amount of silicone lubricant will help the lid move more smoothly. This should work but you’ll want to check on it daily. You might also want to replace the tabs in the canister (if you have the old style tabs) with a newer style “ring-stop” retaining ring. This will hold the lid down more securely. Contact our customer service dept (800) 621-5886 for more information. Thanks
It may be that the internal diameter of your pipe is slightly irregular and not able to receive the couplings. I am not aware of any alternate suppliers. However, check multiple pool retailers and see if any of them use a local distributor for their products. Local pool distributors would be a good alternate source.
I have had repeated problems with my paramount modules (6 port) getting stuck either on one zone or between zones so that it is providing half pressure to two adjacent zones. I have replaced two under warranty already and now the third is doing the same thing. If I take it out and rinse it thoroughly it will work for a couple of hours but then the same thing happens. Sometimes some grit is visible on the module when I remove it. Is the problem that my filter elements may have some tears and are allowing debris to get into the module and cause the valves to stick, or could it e something else? The last one I sent to Paramount supposedly went through a diagnostic test but I never heard anything about the results, they did provide a replacement through my supplier.
I have a 6 port system that when first turned on the pressure goes from very high to low making a sporatic chugging noise. This pressure build up causes water to squirt out where the motor is connected and also ther is some leakage from the 6 port unit, The whole system shakes/vibrates violently for about 15 seconds then it functions properly. I have recently replaced the 6 port valet.
P.S. The build up in pressure also caused the dome to split. ( I also replaced the dome). The pool was built by Paddock in 2001.
HELP
Thank you,
Bill Harris
Hi Kurt,
My pool builder’s team did not install equalizer lines to my two canisters. 1) The water over the lids quickly disappears 2) vacuum is lost and then 3) the pumps auto-shut off.
What can be done? Do you guys sell gaskets that will allow the lids to maintain an air tight seal like the plastic lids over the baskets on the pumps? Other ideas?
James
Hello! I need help please. I have a PCC2000 cleaning system on a booster pump. It is conected to a Paramount 6 module system. The pipe running to my spa heads has a jandy check valve that I have replaced. What is happening is the check valve is pulsating (the best I can describe) which is letting water through causing my spa to drain slowly into my pool. What is causing this???? My heads seem fine. The paramount 6 module system seems fine. I can hear a ticking and see the flapper in the check valve slightly but rapidly pulsate back and forth cdreating the back flow. I can not seem to figure it out. Your help is greatly appreciated. Paul in Phoenix, AZ Paddock Pool.
I turned off my pool valet to use the upper circulators for a while. Now only half of the nozzles come up, no rotation to the other nozzles. Do I need to replace the module?
I have the A&A Built-in Pool Cleaning & Circulation Systems and the pop-up jets on one entire side is not coming up and not cleaning. I cannot figure out how to see what the problem may be. Any advice and/or solution would be great. Thank You.
We had a new pool built last year that was finished in September. It is pebblesheen with PCC 2000 and runs off a jandy 1.5hp variable speed pump. It is a 6 port module. The main drains do not look like any in your brochures. They are your typical star pattern cover with small grooves. Our pool is outdoors with no screen. the floor cleaner does not pick up any debris. I have a ton of oak leaves and pollen sacs sitting on the bottom of my pool which will not move. The heads pop up and blow but nothing happen to the debris. I do not have a separate leaf canister. I have asked my pool builder to check it and they say its working fine. I don’t trust them though as nothing they have built “works fine”. Is there someone that can come out in my area and check to see if it is installed correctly or what is the problem?
Where are you and who built your pool?
I’ll have to refer you to A&A manufacturing to get answers to how their systems operate. http://www.aamfg.com
Before you replace the module, you’ll want to make sure your filter is clean and that enough water is making it to the valve to cause it to rotate and to make the nozzles clean properly. Also make sure the “pause/run” switch on the top of the valve is set to “run”. Finally, you can disassemble the valve and check the module by:
-turning off your pump(s)
-removing the band clamp that holds the Paramount water valve together
-taking off the lid of the valve and removing the module
-check the top gears and make sure they are spinning freely and not slipping
-also see that the piston’s on the underneath part of the module are all seated tightly against the module base and not sticking open.
If you find problems with the gears or the pistons, then you’ll want to look into replacing the module.
Is your spa raised above the pool? I cannot speak for the installation or operation of the Jandy check valve. Our valve system and nozzles do not prevent the backflow of water from the spa to the pool on their own, which is why we require the installation of a check valve on the zone of the system going to a raised spa.
Keep in mind that there are usually check valves also installed for the spa jets and any other returns in your spa that could also be causing your backflow issues. You also want to make sure the control valve (whether manual or actuated electronically) that controls suction between the pool and spa (in front of your filter pump) is closing fully and that no debris is preventing it from sealing properly.
If you have not already acquired an O-ring from Paramount for your canister lids, then you can contact our office (800) 621-5886 to obtain them. If you want to check out your local pool store for the canister lid orings, the part number from Paramount is 005-1520120-00.
If you have not already done so. Please contact our main office and ask for technical support. They’ll want to get the date code on the new valve module you recently purchased and get more information about your installation. You also want to make sure there are not blockages in any of the nozzles in your system.
How old is your pool and what type filter do you have? Cartridge or D.E.? It does sound as though you may be getting an inordinate amount of debris through your filter and into the valve. I would get with your builder or a service technician and have your filter checked.
Jimmy I have a Paramount pc 2000 in floor cleanig system. Occasionaly one of the nozzles will pop completely out and I’ll find it on the pool floor. Does the entire nozzle need to be replaced or just the O ring. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Farrlley. PS it’s the same nozzle every time.
As a un-knowledgeable user I removed all my popups at once to clean them. I did not keep them in order so I don’t know which location they need to be put back in. As I was cleaning them I noticed that the inserts to change the size of the output water are different. Is there any way to determine which ones belong in which holes?
Also I bought replacement popups and they come with the different size inserts but no instruction on how to dismantle the popup so that they can be inserted. Can you help with that?
Hello Kurt, great resource site. Thanks. Burning question…Stuck PCC2000 large heads in pool. Jetted around the pop-up and tried to remove, clockwise. We got a couple un-frozen, but the pop ups won’t lift up or out. Had to yank up directly very hard and got one out…now 5 left. A few have been very gouged up and I gouged a couple more. One is so gouged by the removal tool, that there are not ‘fins’ left on the pop-up for the tool to grab on to. So now what…how do I get it out?
Hi, I’m the second owner of a pool with a paramount in floor cleaning system installed. The pool is about 8 years old, and I have no idea when or if any of the modules were replaced. I Have the 12 port system. I believe I have a bad module, and I think it might be the “control” module which directs the water but I’m hoping for some advice as to how I can be sure of this before I replace it. I don’t want to replace the wrong module as they are expensive. Currently when the system operates only about half the nozzles pop up and they do not rotate nor do they “shift.” So essentially I have only half the nozzes working and its always the same ones, pointing in the same direction. Frther both gauges on the six port valves are reading barely any pressure. I have the main drain set correctly and all pipes are clear of any debris. Can you advise if I should replace the “control” module or could I be experiencing a different problem. Also, I have removed, cleaned, and reinstalled all modules as per the instructions given above on this website and it had no effect. Any assitance on this would be greatly appreciated as my pool is slowly getting dirtier and dirtier! Thanks!
Hi Kurt:
We have the PCC 2000 system; all pop-up valves are working properly; I’ve noticed any debris that gets moved to the center drain doesn’t enter, rather, just hangs around and moves somewhere else when a valve sends a jetstream of water. When I open the cannister where debris is collected little debris if found; water is slowly flowing into the basket area; I think the line is clogged with debris since I can feel and remove tightly packed debris in the line near the entrance to the basket. We live in Las Vegas and the wind blows a lot of crap into the pool from our neighbors yard. If the lise is clogged what is the best way to free the debris? Some roto-rooter? do I go from the main drain up the line to the basket or from the basket down. What is the safest way to clean the pipes out? Thanks. Clogged in Vegas.
Our pcc2000 system has been working flawlessly. We just had the pool refinished and have been running the mdx main drain and pcc2000 for the past two days. This morning I found that the pcc2000 has two circuits running at the same time. The circuits change normally but one circuit is on all the time with pressure. The system is about 8-10 years old. It came with the house when we bought it. Thepcc2000 is connected to the skimmer and does not get filtered other than a “sock” on the skimmer basket. Wondering if the valve assembly has failed. Thanks!
How can I find A dealer for service around sugarLand Texas 77406
I have Three cansters on left has 6 holes center has 2 holes on right has 6 holes .
I have not been able to find anyone to work on my system its a PV3
I am wondering what the warranty on the Paramount 6 port units are? I purchased this home December of 2010 – and the module had multiple zones open at the same time… so in April of 2011 I purchased a new 6 port module… by March of this year, it has multiple zones open again.. these units are pretty pricy to only work for a year before they fail.. and since I can find no option for repairing them, I want to make sure I just got a lemon before I purchase another one.. thanks
I have a 9 year old PCC2000 2 port system with one port serving the pool returns and one serving 5 pop-ups that clean our steps and “beach.” I recently needed to replace the module and I was told to get a 2 port 5 gear module…However, I discovered that the one that I am replacing is a 4 gear module. Can I use the 5 gear module or do I need to reorder a 4 gear? Essentially, what’s the difference between the 4 gear and the 5 gear?
I have a paramount pcc 2000 system in my pool and spa that was installed in 2002. the pop ups in the spa and the pop ups on the stairs and the underwater sundeck work, but 3 of the 6 pop ups in my pool do not pop up. So I unscrewed one of the non working pop ups to check for water pressure, but there was never any water pressure on that pop up as the system went through the cycle 3 times. And I think this has been a problem from the beginning or maybe it started a couple of years after i had the pool installed….not sure. any suggestions?
Great thread on information!
I have a PCC2000 system with separate pumps for. drain/skimmer ->1.5hp pump ->filter->heater, and skimmer->1.3hp pump -> valves. There are 2 separate 2″ lines from the skimmer (filter/cleaner). I was thinking about replacing the filter pump with a VS pump and was wondering if I could remove the cleaner pump and re-plumb. I would add a electronic valve to enable the cleaner and kick up the speed of the pump during cleaning time. The valve would need to be set at some percentage (filter/cleaner valves) when in clean mode. I am also left with the extra skimmer line that was connected to the cleaner pump unused (could join with existing skimmer line but I don’t think it would be required).
Am I crazy?
Bruce
We are getting ready to build a pool and are interviewing two pool builders. One builder installs the PCC 2000, the other the Cyclean. Can you tell me the basic differences between the two systems and if one is preferred over the other?
All Paramount in-floor cleaning systems, when installed by an authorized Paramount dealer, come with the same 99% cleaning guaranty and lifetime limited nozzle warranty. PCC2000 and Cyclean both utilize our efficient hydraulic water valve and MDXR3 debris drain and optional debris canister. The engineering and design of the nozzles and their placement in the pool vary slightly between the systems, but the end result is going to be the same…your pool will keep itself clean and do so nearly invisibly while enhancing every aspect of water filtration, chemical treatment and heating. For more details on the different systems, check out our website at http://www.1paramount.com/products.
You can certainly pursue the idea that you have to consolidate the operation of your cleaning system to your filter pump as you described. There are a number of factors you’ll want to consider before you do that:
1) your floor system performance will now be directly effected by and dependent on the cleanliness of your filter. If you are using a cartridge filter you will have to tear down and clean your filter more often (this is the case with any in-floor system) to ensure your I floor system pressure and flow remain at the desired level. If you have a backwashable filter, you can backwash your filter more easily to recover your needed flow. Whereas you might normally wait until your filter pressure increases 10 lbs to clean it, with the floor system tied to the filter pump you will have to clean it after the pressure increases 3-5 lbs to preserve the floor system nozzles coverage in the pool.
2) The total plumbing of the filter, heater if applicable, chlorinator and valves create what we call friction loss and reduces hydraulic efficiency and will undoubtedly have a negative impact on creating the desired efficiency you are trying to achieve. Your filter will work at a higher clean pressure because of the necessary pressure and flow needed for the floor system to do its job. Your system will have to work longer in cleaner mode than it does currently to clean since the overall turnover rate of the one pump system is being reduced. You will have to operate the variable speed pump at its max output in order to overcome that friction loss while still limiting its volume of turnover due to the inherent operating design of any floor system which converts flow to pressure to effectively debris as we want it to.
Ultimately, if you think of your floor system as working like a broom and dustpan, where the nozzles are the broom and the drain and skimmers are the dustpan, we’ve always found that the two pump design you currently have provides by far the most efficient and effective use of each of the systems pumps and related components.
If you have a two valve system (what we call a 9 zone valve) it’s possible that one of the two valves is locked up or paused. Please remove the modules and check the valve alignment guide on the technical page of this blog to ensure the modules are installed and operating correctly.
The only difference in the two modules is how long it takes the valve to rotate thru each cycle. A five gear module turns slower (about 8-10 minutes at 20 psi) then the 4 gear (3-4 min at 20 psi).
A replacement module comes with a 1 year warranty. It should last much longer than what you have experienced so you should contact the company you purchased it from and work with them on getting it replaced and review the troubleshooting information on the technical section of this blog to confirm that your system is calibrated and serviced properly.
You can contact Cabana Pools in Houston for assistance.
It appears that you have some debris from the replaster that has made its way into one of our pistons in your water valve. You’ll need to remove the module, clean it out by spraying it down with a water hose nozzle and make sure there is no debris in the pistons of the underneath side of the module. Use the module alignment guide in the tech section of this blog if you have any questions.
I would advocate having a pool professional go down to the floor drain and remove the cover and remove any obstruction from the floor up to the canister.
It sounds like one or more of the modules is malfunctioning. Please remove all the modules and check for any of the pistons on The underneath side of the module that are not retracted snug up against the module base, and that the gears are turning frerely. The low pressure is due to the fact that many zones are open simultaneously.
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kurts Paramount Pool and Spa Systems Blog wrote:
> ** > kurtatparamount commented: “It sounds like one or more of the modules > is malfunctioning. Please remove all the modules and check for any of the > pistons on The underneath side of the module that are not retracted snug up > against the module base, and that the gears are turning frerely” >
You should first attempt to acquire and reinstall the nozzle oring.
Please let me know which system type you have…PCC2000, PV3, Cyclean or Pool Valet
Have you contacted a pool professional to come out and look at your situation?
I found one of my PV3 Nozzles laying in the bottom of the pool. What would make it come out? Can it just be put back in? If so how?
I have a 10 year old PCC 2000 in floor system. It is a single pump system. I recently installed a Intelliflow vs pump. Even at full speed I cannont maintain the pressures you recommend. I have 26 to 28 psi on the filter and 18psi max on the water valve. Is this ok? I very recently relaced the water valve module, dome and pressure gauge.
I have a paramount 6port cleaning system with Vantage pop ups and have seperate pump to run the pop ups.I have no pressure at the module gage. I just installed a new 6 port module and stiil nothing. The only thing I can see wrong is that in my pump filter basket is not filling up with water but I can see water flowing threw it. O-ring on basket and module are good. Pop ups try to come up but not all the way and some times get air bubbles blowing out of them. Please help!
Hello,
I have. Pool with a PCC2000, everything works fin, but the debris canister has 2 holes at the bottom, one is full of rocks, are they both supposed to have suction?
Thank you
Hello, I have a 12 pop up PCC2000 system in my pool. I woke up this morning to 9 heads up at the same time. How can I clean my module and if it needs to be replaced what is the part number (I have found several and none identify themselves as 12 port just something like this:
Paramount 2 Port 5 Gear Water Valve Module | 004-302-4402-00 | 004302440200
Thanks
I HAVE A paramount 2000 SYSTEM W/JANDY VALVE, RECENTLY THE VALVE WAS TURNED POSSIBLY BY LANDSCAPERS, I DIDN’T NOTICE IT RIGHT AWAY AND MY POOL SEEMED TO BE DIRTIER THAN USUAL. SO WHERE SHOULD THE VALVE BE SET FOR NORMAL OPERATION OF THE 2000 SYSTEM IT IS HARD TO READ DUE TO FADING FROM THE SUN. LOOKING AT THE VALVE SHOULD IT BE SET TO THE LEFT, RIGHT OR IN THE MIDDLE? I HAVE A 2ND JANDY AT THE SALT CELL WHERE SHOULD THAT BE SET ALSO. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
I will need more information to help. Each pool is plumbed differently so it is unclear what direction your valves should be set since it is unclear what components each valve setting is plumbed to.
A 12 port valve is made up of a total of three valves with modules. To replace all the modules, which would appear to be necessary, you’ll two 6 port valve modules and a 2 port/5 gear module.
Normally, only one port of the canister base is plumbed back to the circulation pump, while the other is capped off and frequently collects construction debris which is visible by looking down into the canister. Sounds like all is working as it should.
It appears you are having trouble with your pump and it’s ability to prime. You may want to check the impeller of the pump to see if it has become imbedded with debris and can not move water. This is a situation that may be best looked at by a pool professional. If you do this on your own, please make sure your power/breaker to the pump is completely off.
This is an issue with either you filter or the plumbing between your filter and the floor system valve. You’ll want to check your filter elements to make sure they are completely clean and flowing freely. If you have cartridge filters that are more than a couple of years old, you may need to replace them or at least put them through a thorough cleaning and soaking to remove built up oils and materials. If you have a DE filter, and backwashing doesn’t help, consider a complete tear down of the filter to clean the grids, or possibly replace the grids.
Hi Kurt,
Hoping you have the knowledge to assist with my situation/issue!!
Just recently completed a resurfacing of my pool, which had a paramount in-floor cleaning system with a 9-port water valve and also included a debris canister. We decided to do away with this system and change to a pool sweep (Pentair Legend Platinum series).
We had all of the new equipment we purchased installed (i.e. Pentair VS Intelliflo pump, booster pump, heater, filter, etc.) by the pool builder who made multiple attempts to eliminate the in-floor cleaning system so that the pool sweep could operate effectively.
All attempts so far have been unsuccessful! They even dug up part of our concrete pad to go underground to change some of the plumbing (unfortunately I was not at home at the time to witness what the changes were), but that still didn’t fix the problem.
What is the problem you ask? When attempting to operate the pool sweep, air is getting into the line and causing the sweep to barely operate. I can visually observe the top of the VS pump intermittently having a rush of bubbles/air cycle through it. The return jets in the pool also have large amounts of bubbles cycling through them. I believe the issue lies with the debris canister, which has a lid that is supposed to not require an o-ring. However, that lid is loose and sporadically will fill up with water and then empty to where you can see water running through it.
Calling on you to help with suggestion(s) on how to fix this issue. Is it as simple as putting an o-ring on the canister lid so the seal is then air tight? The original build of the pool before we moved in did not include an equalizer line into the debris canister. Would we be better off getting someone to drill a hole from the pool wall into the canister instead?
Any assistance/advice/help you can offer would be so greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Darryl
I have a 2008 (appx) pool built by Paddock in Phoenix, AZ. It has a PCC2000 cleaning system, consisting of a pump (independent from the filter pump), which then returns first into a 2-port valve. Each of those ports feeds one of two 5-port valves. Over the last 10 months, I’ve noticed that a couple of the heads were not popping up, so I removed all of them (16 rotating, and 2 fixed around the main drain) to clean them. Indeed, they had a lot of sand in the body “seat” area. Unfortunately, when I removed them I didn’t realize that certain heads went into certain bodies (so that the combined volumes would be correct). So, when I re-installed them, I just put them back randomly. When i restarted the system, it seemed to work fine, but after a few cycles I noticed that only one head was continually popped-up, with no other action whatsoever. I opened the valve bodes to make sure they were clean, which of course they were. When I restarted the system, again, it seemed to work fine through a few cycles, but eventually settled in on that same head popping up, and nothing else. My questions: a) how can I figure out where to put which head? Would Paddock have a plan I could refer to? What is the strategy behind placing heads, i.e. smaller orifices on stairs, larger orifices in the center of the pool, etc) b) Have I damaged the valve diaphragms and can I buy new ones? c) Do you think that if I arrange the heads correctly, and replace any damaged diaphragms, that the cleaning system will function correctly? Thanks for any help you can offer.
I have PCC2000 System, 6 Ports, chlorine, pebble Tec, installed by Paddock. Around pool, on the walls I have down jets. 2 of them are right above the fixed pop ups for main drain. 1 is at deep end of pool and another is near steps. My question is should all of them be pointed down? My pool guy says they should be pointed parallel to the water surface to circulate water past the skimmer. I am currently having problem with particulates in the water. Trying to make sure I have system set up correctly.
Here is diagram of my setup: http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Excogitate/poolpopupmap_zpsa93ee45e.jpg
I have a pool valet system and one of the heads recently popped out. The top part of collar where head screws in broke off. What are my options to replace it? Do I need to have pebble tec removed to glue a new one in? Thanks
Hello – I am in FL and have a pool built in 1997….it has 7 valves on the pool bottom. Also, the external valve cannister has “8 circuit valve” written on the side and “Paramount” on top. Now, two zones pretty much stay up all day and the other five “sometimes” come up. I would like to take apart and see if there is some debris inside or “what”. But I have not seen anything on this site or via search about an “8” zone valve. Can you assist? thanks pbl
Sorry Kurt – I double checked the valve cover today and see where some white paint got on the number and made it look like an 8 – on the other side of the valve container was a 6…my mistake – however, there are still seven (7) jets on the bottom of the pool……thanks
Hi Kurt,
This is a large in ground diving pool, built by Paddock Pools in 2001.
My system has a dedicated 2 hp pump motor and sand filter, with the in-deck debris screen. I have the PC2000 in floor cleaning system. It has a 2 hp booster pump that runs the 2 port 5 gear module and two 6 port modules.
The problem started about 3 months ago. The booster pump looks like it is cavitating water at the pump lid and it is real noisy. It also is not cleaning the sides and floor very well. This booster pump runs either the PC2000 system or the waterfall feature. When I turn the Jandy valve to run the waterfall, we can see and hear the water surge and it has a lower volume of water coming across the waterfall.
Things tried/replaced:
The system does not lose prime, does not have dirt in the pump basket area. The pump basket o-ring has been changed out, all three of the modules (new 2 years ago) have been rinsed out and new o-rings installed. The booster pump itself has had new front seal and o-rings replaced. (also I temporarily switched the main pump motor and the booster pump motor as a test, with no difference). The booster pump has been out multiple times and there does not appear to be any cracks in the impeller/pump/basket housing either. I have sprayed the suction line fittings and they don’t indicate any leakage.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I have a 6 port paramount system installed in 2006 and replaced the 6 port module after trouble shooting why pop ups did not work. There are 6 pop ups in the pool floor and one across the main drain does not pop up after cleaning filter, pipes to pop ups/installation module. I noticed as I flushed the pipes to clean that are attached to the module base that go out to pool, only 5 pipes go to pool. The 6th pipe is connected to module base and then to one of the 5 pipes and is clearly visible. I did rotate opo up and make sure it was functional.
Is this how it should be connected? I believe that that popup 6th pop up did work but now I am not sure it every did.
I take it that when you say you “did rotate pop up and make sure it was functional”, that you actually removed the nozzle (pop up) in question to see if it might be jammed. If the other zones are firing and cycling, then there is not a problem with the valve itself. It is not unusual for the pool to be designed with what we call a “double fired” zone, where one port of the valve is tied back into an existing zone in the pool and fires twice in the cycle. A pool might be designed like this if there was only the need for 5 zones to cover the floor. If you have a PCC system, you might be dealing with a “fixed nozzle” that would be tied to a dedicated return of the filtration system, and not assigned to the valve. Without access to the original engineered plan for your pool, these would be the items I’d look into first.
It does sound like a pump problem since you are seeing deficiencies in both the floor system and water feature operation of the dedicated pump. It really sounds to me like you have a suction blockage somewhere between the pool suction and the pump. Have you tried removing the floor system valve modules (the 2 port and two six ports) to see if the pump still struggles priming? Does you dedicated floor system/water feature pump get it’s water from a skimmer, a side suction, or both?
I would check the water valve module for any possible problems in that device. Here is a video link on how to do this properly:
The good news is that Paramount makes a retrofit nozzle for this very situation called “PV Retro” that won’t require any surgery to your pool. It will glue into the existing collar, even if broken, and allow for the installation of a newer updated style nozzle. If you do not know of a Paramount dealer or service company in your area to help you with this, please contact Paramount’s main office at 800-621-5886. Thanks.
Thanks for your question. It is frequently misunderstood that those downjets can or should be pointed up or away from the floor due to preconceived ideas of how a pool is “supposed” to work. In this case, your pool guy is not entirely clear as to the proper set up of the PCC2000 system. Each downjet has a purpose and should be aimed downward to the floor, even aimed slightly back into the wall to ensure that it pushes down the wall properly.
You’ve asked a lot of very good questions. To begin, there is a very precise plan to where each nozzle goes and what orifice size it should have, both for proper cleaning and proper cycling of the valve. I will refer you to the troubleshooting guide of my blog to see more detailed and specific information on the appropriate gallonage, orifice size and zone configurations to help you along. As far as your plan is concerned, Paddock (who is now under new ownership as far as I know) may still have your original layout but if they don’t, use the troubleshooting guide on this blog to help you understand how the nozzles should be configured.
It’s truly unfortunate that you chose to terminate your infloor system. My guess is that with some very simple troubleshooting by a knowledgeable service technician, you would still get to enjoy a completely clean pool, including steps, benches, spa, etc, without having to deal with a hose end cleaner in your pool.
Since it appears that you do not have the proper balance/equalizer line installed with your canister, an oring will be required to help it have a chance to prime properly. We do make an oring for this purpose.
Hi Kurt,
I have a brand new pool, and purchased it with a Vanquish in-floor cleaning system. The floor jets all seem to work perfectly, but the MDX3 drain doesn’t have any suction that I can feel. My skimmers seem to have good suction (this is my first pool, so I can’t really be sure), but when I swim down to the MDX3 and put my hand in the slot I can’t feel any suction what so ever. When debris falls into the slot it does end up in the canister, but I’ve literally have seen leaves float directly over the drain and keep on going past it. I figured with all the warnings and safety devices for this system that I should at least feel some suction if I go near it. My pool vendor has been out and they blew the lines, they said nothing was clogged and that the system is working properly. They did mention that if I close off the skimmers that I would increase the suction on the drain (I can only close one skimmer at a time and this makes no difference at the drain).
Please help.
George
We had to have a crack / leak repaired in our 7 year old gunite/plaster pool this Spring. Needless to say after draining and months of re-construction the pool is back to operational. The pcc system however will not rotate. We have had many service guys here including the pool co. who installed it originally.
After cleaning heads, trying a new gear mechanism and even blowing out the lines with air it has now been decided to try acid washing out the lines and closing the pool for 3 days. This scares me. Will that be affective ? Will that cause damage to my equipment ?
The pcc system runs but all the heads do not pop up > as if there is a clog in a line somewhere.
And if you put in the gear box as it is now the pressure shoots way up so we have been running it without a gear box and the heads obviously do not rotate.
I have a new pool with the Cyclean in floor cleaning system. I had no problem with the system for the first few weeks, but a couple of weeks ago I found one the caps to one the cleaning heads floating around on the bottom of the pool. I popped it back on and it watched it go through several cycles to make sure it would stay on. The next day it was off again. I put it back on again but it would be off by the next day. Now I have 3 caps coming off. What do you think is causing them to pop off and how can I fix this problem?
Hi Kurt, 2nd pool in 2 different states and both had PPC2000 system. The first one the builder talked me into – I was skeptical as a former pool guy, I had removed and plastered over many systems with parts no longer available. But, we fell in love with our first Paramount system, and when building a pool in another state, would not accept a pool without one. Even going so far as getting the builder registered and trained. Very happy with new pool and Paramount system, but 2 questions:
1. MVfuse seems to trip to easily. Once a week for no real reason. Just starting pump sometimes does it. With the wall suction and main drain, and a skimmer feeding the filter pump, I want to go back to the normal canister lid. Any comments?
2. My swingjets seem to easily get debris in them. A filter is fine (cartridge) but somehow, occassionally i see a piece of grass of spec of sand. I have a 2 pump system and the 6-way valve has no filter, so even though I have a skimmer sock on the skimmer that feeds it, there is a balance line that could pull in something. There must be a way to disassemble these swingjets to clean them out. I know you don’t recommend this for normal homeowners, but I do all my own work, so this is not something that worries me. Any help here?
Hi Kurt,
I have a brand new pool and am having a problem with my MDXr3, I swam down to the drain to check out the suction and when I got there I could feel no pull what so ever. I even went so far as to physically put some leaves a couple of inches from the drain and just watched them get blown around by the side jets. The only time anything gets brought into the canister is if it eventually “falls” into the drain.
I called my Pool Builder and they came and blew out the lines and didn’t find any obstructions, they said everything was working normally.
I’ve been to the Paramount website and looked at the video of the system in action, I can tell you that my drain doesn’t pull at all compared to that video.
I’ve cleaned my cartridge filters numerous times so I don’t think that is the problem.
Please help.
Just had a PCC 2000 system installed with out new pool. I am trying to get hold of the pool builder, but since they’ve received our last check they seem to not want to work with us any more. Anyway, I have a bunch of PCC 2000 STEP heads (7) on the steps and benches. When the cleaning system is running, I can see the floor pop-ups working and rotating/ratcheting properly. The STEP heads, though don’t move at all. I’ve pulled them from the pool and they pop up and down just fine like a piston. The funny thing is that there is no ratchet gear in there. There appears to be just a brass weight at the bottom to help the head drop down when turned off. Is it normal to have STEP heads that don’t rotate? I can’t imagine that two STEP heads on my tanning ledge will keep it clean if they don’t rotate. It almost looks like the head is expected to rotate on the water pressure alone. But I don’t know if this is correct.
Can you also tell me what the expected pressure is at the valves? When it runs now, it ranges from 2-5 psi per station.
Thanks for any help you can offer! This is our first pool so I am completely green when it comes to this stuff.
My contractor is pointing to a Paramount in floor system as an alternative to a screen enclosure. However we do have year round leaf falling zone where the pool will be. Is any infloor system going to remove lots of leaves? Not guessing so.
Hi Kurt, I have a 6 jet swing jet system with an MDX R3 drain, SDX wall safety drain, and debris canister. Unfortunately, my pool builder never installed floor jets, so the system does not clean the pool as we were told it would. The deck side debris canister does collect some debris , but not a lot, and I get the feeling that this is being collected via the open side wall port that feeds into the canister (as that is where most of the draw seems to be coming from). A lot of debris settles right near the MDX R3 on the bottom and never appears to be sucked into the drain. There is no feeling of suction at the drain, which I have heard may be normal, but in looking at videos of the drain, it shows a good flow of leaves being sucked into the bottom drain. I dove down and took a look into the bottom drain this weekend, and I could see a lot of debris (pine needles and such) sitting at the bottom of the drain. I assume this should be free and clear of all debris if suction is good and it’s working properly, yes? Is it possible the pipe that leads from the MDX R3 to the debris canister is clogged and if so, how do I unclog it? Thanks!
George,
It is true that in order for the MDXR3 drain to work effectively, it must receive adequate flow from your filtration pump. Having an adequate hp pump and devoting adequate suction to the drain, by reducing skimmer suction, will improve it’s performance. Since your skimmers are at the surface of the pool, versus your MDXR3 drain which is deeper in the pool, the path of least resistance is for the pump to pull from the skimmers first. To counteract this tendency, it would be helpful if your turned the suction of any skimmers tied to your filter pump down about 50 percent to redirect suction to your MDXR3 drain.
It does sound as if you may have a serious blockage somewhere in your system. I cannot really speak to the cause or certainty of remedy for your situation but the use of Muriatic Acid in plumbing lines to break down plaster/concrete blockages is common and generally effective. The acid has no effect on rigid schedule 40 PVC pipe so the only damage that should occur is to whatever materials are creating the blockage.
If the blockages are cleared and you move forward with restarting your pool, you might ask the builder to pressure test the lines just as an insurance policy.
Usually, caps popping off are a sign of excessive pressure in your systems operation. Once a cap pops off, it is more likely to pop off again once replaced. The water valve for your Cyclean system (the black dome coming out of the ground near you pool or equipment pad) should have a pressure gauge that tells you what each zone’s pressure is. If any or all of the zones are operating consistently above 25 psi with all the nozzles and caps installed, then either the pump size may be too big or one or more nozzles may be improperly sized and creating restriction.
The proper installation of nozzle cap orifices is critical to proper performance. the system works on a zone to zone operating flow of 60 gallons per minute at an operating pressure of about 18-22 psi with the proper orifices installed. Each nozzle was designated by our plan to carry enough flow so that each zone (set of nozzles grouped together) operates at 60 gpm at that pressure. There are three orifice options for a Cyclean nozzles, 1/4 inch = 5 gpm, 3/8 inch equals 10 gpm, and 5/8 inch orifice equals 20 gpm. A combination of nozzles on each grouping (zone) should have a total flow of 60-65 gpm. You may want to check this out and contact your builder if you find they are not correct.
The MVFuse’s sensitivity is adjustable. If you are having nuisance tripping of the device, then it probably needs to be recalibrated to trip less easily. This process should be handled by your builder as a continuing process in getting your pool fine tuned.
The Swingjets do have a tool that allows you to disassemble the outer escutcheon cover and clear out the cam and pins. You can contact Paramount at 800-621-5886 for information on how to get that tool.
The MDXR3 drain a vessel that responds to flow delivered to it from the pool’s filter pump. Therefore, it’s effectiveness will be directly related to three primary factors:
1) is the pumps horsepower and/or speed (as it relates to newer variable speed pumps) adequate to deliver what the drain needs (which is usually a minimum of 40 gpm with a max flow rate of 132 gpm) to function effectively?
2) Are the filter and pump baskets free of obstruction and debris (which you’ve already answered)
3) are the manual and/or automatic valves that control suction to the MDXR3 drain and skimmers positioned in such a way to allocated more suction to the MDXR3 and maximize it’s capability.
The video on our website is of an MDXR3 drain generally working with most of the filter pump’s suction allocated to it and running at a high rpm rate (i.e.: equivalent hp of 2 or more). The drain will be effective at removing debris received into it at flow rates as low as 40 gpm.
The step nozzles utilize a unique technology Paramount calls a ratchetless, weighted nozzle. The nozzles will rotate when operated with a Paramount water valve. As water flows into the nozzle, the angle of the hole where the water comes out creates a small amount of rotation until the nozzle is fully extended. Usually after 15-18 cycles (similar to the 18 position larger ratcheting floor nozzle), the step nozzle will have made a 360 degree rotation. So, the nozzles ARE rotating, just like the floor nozzles but using a different, but very reliable technique. They will keep your steps, benches and tanning ledges clean.
This technology has been unique to Paramount and used very effectively for nearly 30 years. Given the smaller size of those step nozzles, removing all the potential moving parts virtually eliminates the chance of the nozzle breaking or sticking, further adding to the validity of our limited lifetime nozzle warranty.
Combining Paramount’s infloor system engineering with the industries most effective debris drain…MDXR3, you can have confidence that the system can handle leafy debris. As with any pool, proper maintenance of skimmers, filters, pump baskets and in Paramount’s case, the debris containment canister, will ensure years of ongoing, effective cleaning. Paramount installs 1000’s of systems in some of the most heavily wooded backyards in the country.
You’ve got a number of good questions here. Some are hard to answer without more information. Regarding your swingsweep/swingjet system; it is necessary to have adequate pressure going to the Paramount valve that distributes water to the two zones (three swingjets each). Your Paramount valve pressure should read a minimum of 16-18 psi in order for the Swingjets to get adequate water flow to move debris effectively. This will also relate to the performance of your MDXR3 drain. MDXR3 is simply a vessel responding to the amount of flow delivered to it. If your filter pump is variable speed, you will likely need to increase the flow/rpm rate on the pump to get the pressure to the swingjets and flow to the drain increased. You’ll also want to consider cutting back slightly on your skimmer suction to redirect more suction to the MDXR3. Skimmers can be effective with less flow so it is okay to do this.
As far as total cleaning goes, and as you can see from the website for Swingsweep (www.1paramount.com/products/swingsweep), Swingsweep is design primarily for enhancing circulation and cleaning, but will not always clean every pool completely. It works ideally with the addition of either Paramount nozzles in the floor or other robotic style cleaners.
Is there an adapter you can purchase that connects to a standard air compressor line that in turn connects to the paramount outlet and inlets in your water valve system? I would use this to blow out the lines to winterize the pool.
I am trying to winterize mt pool and only one of the return jets are blowing air out of the lines, i deffinatly think there is a break in the line somewhere (due to no water flowing out of jets either when pool is operating, and water backing up onto my yard as well) but for now how should i go about fixing this issue for the winter?
I’m the new owner of a pool (build in the late 90’s I believe) which overall is running well with 10 (2 static, 8 rotating) PCC-2000 pop up jets . Only problem I have is that occasionally some of the rotating jets seem to get stuck in one position. I’ve removed them, cleaned etc which sometimes seems to help for a while even though they are hardly ever dirty. Pressure is good and all jets pop up and go down as designed. Is is it possible for the popup jets to get worn? Some, when I play with them manually seem to sometimes pop up at a slight angle as if the bore/shaft of the pop-up has worn. Is this a possible cause?
Perhaps the more urgent question since I have my pool drained and want to work on the main drain. I’d like to replace (if necessary) the main drain/debris cover. The poll has a single main drain (no SDX) with debris canister next to the skimmer. The drain cover is how shall I describe it – is a flat disc with no holes on top elevated about an inch. Does this satisfy the entrapment specs (I’m in Virginia). If not, which I suspect, what would be the replacemetn cover I would need to install. Maybe MDX2 althought I’m not sure if that will fit the current fitting and I’m not about to replace the drain sump etc. Looking forward to advice so I can refill pool for winter (!)
I need to remove my Paramount drain cover to clean out leaves and twigs that are preventing the water getting back to my pump, but I can not remove the screws. They seem to require a 6 pointed star with hollow center driver. Where can I get this tool, or attachment?
Hi Kurt,
I have a Paramount system in my pool in Australia which is about 11 years old. I recently removed one of the in floor nozzles with the tool from Paramount to replace the o-ring. I am not able to re install the nozzle and have tried with the old o ring as well just in case that is the problem. I have not had trouble doing this in the past
Do you have any suggestions please?
Thanks
Glen
I have a simple question. EXACTLY how do the PCC 2000 step nozzles rotate? I looked at the nozzle assembly and realized that the water port on the nozzle is angled so I’m assuming that the nozzle rotates via water pressure. Having said that, when the nozzle is extended, there seems to be too much water pressure on the head to allow it to turn. I can grip the nozzle with my hand and turn it but there’s no way it would turn on its own. Does the nozzle possibly rotate as it’s coming up or going down? In other words, it doesn’t come and spin but rather it rotates a couple of degrees every time it extends or retracts? When the water pressure is reduced? I know that the bigger floor nozzles rotate via mechanical action within the assembly but the smaller step nozzles are free spinning.
I ask this question because I was having trouble with the entire system. I examined both valve modules (9 port) and found that they were both messed up. I replaced both modules but the system still wasn’t working right. I then removed all of the nozzle assemblies and let the system run overnight. I’ve put everything back together and am now running the system. We’ll see how it does.
I have to take care of this pool myself so it would be nice to understand EXACTLY how it’s supposed to function. Are there any technical manuals (beyond the owners handbook) available?
The nozzles rotate only when coming up and going down. while extended, they will not rotate. You are correct that water flow through the angled opening creates that rotation.
To properly troubleshoot you system, please read the entire troubleshooting guide in the technical forum of my blog. You’ll want to make sure you installed the 4 port module and 6 port modules in the correct valve bases and aligned the 4 port module properly.
Check the pressures on the water valves and make sure each zone operates between 16-22 psi and runs for 30-60 seconds. Also make sure you’ve allocated all the suction you can to the main drain to ensure effective debris removal.
Paramount does make replacement orings for those nozzles. It is likely that your nozzles oring has expanded to the point it will not seat properly and is not allowing the nozzle to seat fully in the nozzle body/housing.
The screw is a Torx T25 security screw. Paramount sells that screwdriver, though you can also usually find the screwdriver or a bit for it at most auto parts stores.
Depending on how the nozzles have been maintained in the past, it is possible that they may not be functioning properly and may need to be replaced.
I presume you’ve completed your renovation by the time I’ve replied to your request, but the drain cover you have on your pool (and all covers for that matter) became obsolete after the Federal gov’t passed the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa safety act (VGB), requiring that all drains be built to a new standard. Though federal enforcement of this law on residential pools was not required by the act, states can adopt laws to enforce VGB oopn residential pools and it is generally recommended that anytime you renovate your make changes to the interior of your pool, replacing the old drain with a compliant drain is advised. In our case, we offer the Buzztop single unblockable channel drain for retrofit, but plastering in the frame and grate is needed. Otherwise, there are retro drains, like SDX, that will work to comply but are not designed for debris removal.
I’d advise you contact a local pool professional to further look into the cause of this problem.
Yes, Paramount makes winterizing plugs for our watervalve. Check with your local pool retailer or contact Paramount at 800-621-5886
I recently replaced the port module 6 for my PCC 2000 cleaning system in mid September because one of the diagrams was ripped and was told these parts could not be serviced but had to buy a new module. Yesterday I found that the system is stuck in one zone and another zone across the pool is barely open. The system won’t cycle.
I took the module outand washed thoroughly, “popped” the valves and spring back fine manually spun the gears with no apparent issues. Put it back together and still no cycle.
I also replaced the dome, it had a leak ( crack) so I replaced this even though this part is not on the suction. The new done has a gauge on it which reads 12psi.
Not really sure if if I am loosing suction but a 12 psi I probably am.
Any suggestions?
Also I purchased port module 6 from a amazon retailer with good standings. Any issues with manufactures warranty?
I wish I bought the port from Leslie’s pool store!
I have a PCC2000 system installed in my Austin, TX pool (2005). Recently replaced water valves, cleaned nozzles and cleaned filters. Whole pool system was running fine until this week. Noticed water draining overnight from elevated spa (3 inches water loss) and main pool (2 inch water loss) into catch basin (below infinity edge). If pumps are left off more than 1 day, water overflows catch basin and is lost. All pop-up valves and pumps working properly–none stuck up. No water or audible air leaks anywhere. Any ideas to where to start a diagnostic look at the problem? Thank you so much for support in the past on the water value problems.
I believe my pool builder has mixed up the plumbing on the Debris Canister.
It has been plumbed so that the water flows into the Debris Canister from the MDX through one of the bottom ports and then out from one of the top ports. So the flow of water through the Canister is from bottom to top. The result is that no debris gets collected in the basket and it all end up in the basket in the main pool pump. I can’t believe this is correct.
Everything is set in concrete so there is no way of re-plumbing the Canister.
Can you suggest a workaround to this problem and/or an alternative way of collecting the debris in the Canister?
Kurt–I also have the PCC2000 pop up heads. I have had pebble tech applied to the pool and the pebbles have gotten down in the groves of the pop up heads making the function of the heads not work properly. Just wondering if we can disassemble the head to clean and re-assemble. I have all ready tried to wash out with a pressure hose. no luck
We’ve had some significant wind and rain and this is the time of the year that a lot of pine straw falls from the trees. For the first time in the .3 yrs I’ve had my pool the paramount system did not perform in its usual manner. Even though I cleaned the filter basket several times a day, almost no debris ended up in the main drain vacuum bag even though a lot of debris reached the pool bottom. Eventually after a few days the system caught up and the pool is clean.
I suspect that there is a blockage in the main drain. What do you think? And what should I do about it?
kurt, I have the 6 port system and I think it has let me down for the first time after 7 years. I noticed that one line stayed open too long and pulled the module to inspect. All seems normal with gears spinning freely,apart from some rattling I could not see anything abnormal. Upon reassembly I have ports opening sequentially, however multiple ports are open and there is nothing rhythmic about the timing. When I shut down the pump the whole system now drains under gravity. I know this is not normal. What is the problem?
Hi Kurt, this is a great asset for a guy in my position. In 2010 I had a gunite, vanishing edge pool (~22,000 gals) installed and insisted on a Paramount system from past experience. It took a long 2 years and shortly after plaster, my builder went BK and left me with a pool 95% done. With a lot of trial, error, and the internet, I have it working relatively well. I’ve gotten pretty good at changing and re-sizing the nozzles (20psi+ now in all zones) and working with the modules. It really is a great system.
The one problem I have yet to solve is a constant stream of air bubbles in the moat return (from the MDX2 and canister in the moat) into the main pool. I have pressure tested the lines from the pump to the canister but found nothing. I also attempted to get drawings from Paramount in Atlanta for my installation to help me dianose the problem but had no luck. At this point I am thinking the problem is between the MDX in the moat and the canister. Before I start re-excavating, do you know what can cause this or can you suggest a way to diagnose this problem?
Thanks for any help or direction you can provide.
Make sure the run/pause switch on the top of the valve top is set to “run”. Also, if your system is working off the filtration pump, please make sure your filter is clean and you are dedicating enough water flow on the return side of the system to the water valve so it operates closer to 20 psi. You may also want to make sure the pump’s impeller is clean and free of debris that might be obstructing flow. This may require a service company to review the operation of your pump.
This would not be an issue with a component of the PCC2000 system, as no part of it is designed to prevent gravity from allowing water to flow from the top of your pools features (spa) to the lowest point (basin). These issues are managed by the various “Check Valves” that should have been installed on both suction and return parts of the pool by your original builder. It is not unusual that over time these check valves can deteriorate and stop functioning properly, and create this type of scenario. You’d likely be best serviced by having a professional pool service company review the hydraulics and operation of your system.
Unfortunately, the debris canister will not function properly with it being plumbed in fashion you’ve indicated. Without it being replumbed, debris will continue to bypass the bag and go to the pump basket.
Yes, the PCC2000 nozzle can be disassembled by removing the main stem (the part with the spring). This is accomplished by rotating that stem counter-clockwise a quarter turn and pulling the stem out from the head. The head of the nozzle can now be removed and the retainer body, where the debris has collected, can be cleaned out directly. Follow these instructions in reverse to reassemble the nozzle.
There are a number of factors that could be contributing to your situation. For the MDX series drain to properly remove debris, it must first have adequate suction allocated to it from the filtration pump so enough water flows into it to pull debris through it. please make sure your filter is very clean and then make sure adequate suction from your filter pump manifold is allocated to the drain for if to pull debris through it. If you find the drain still does not take in debris. I would contact a professional service company to look into the possibility of a clogged drain.
It is possible that you have a module whose pistons are not retracting properly. when you remove the module, if you see that any of the pistons are not fully retracted against the base plate of the module, you’ll likely need to replace it. One way to prevent this from happening in the future with a new module, make sure to remove it at least once per year and clean it by submersing it in water and stirring it around to remove any debris that my have collected in the module. You can also use a spray nozzle and water hose to spray off the module.
with a vanishing edge basin installation, you’ll need to install a debris canister lid o-ring (005-152-0120-00) to seal the lid given that the lowering water level from the catch basin feeding water to the main pool is preventing the debris canister from staying primed.
Thanks for the reply Kurt. Yes, I previously installed the o-ring but it made no difference – still a lot of churning and bubbling under the clear cover (unlike the canister on the main pool), and a steady stream of bubbles in the main pool. Here is some more information which I should have provided you before:
1. The basin ADR canister is located at the correct height to the basin (about 2″ of water above the clear lid) located about 2′ from the MDX2
2. There is no SDX installed – in either the main pool or the basin; only a 2″ pvc pipe from the MDX to the side of the basin and the pool
3. There are 1-1/2″ equalizers from the canisters to the main/basin sides below 1 ft of the water line
4. The basin return is powered by a 3/4 hp dedicated pump; the cleaning heads in the basin are powered by the main 1-1/2 hp (this seems odd to me and will allow water to siphon from the main pool into the basin when the pumps are off if these valves are left on); should this be changed?
5. The main pump for the pool has an MDX2, two standard Main Drains and a Skimmer connected; the same pump pushes water through a Triton II commercial, sand filter, and powers a 9 Port PCC2000 system
6. The basin pump draws from the MDX2 in the basin about 70′ away
Sorry for all the detail but maybe it will help you help me…..
I have the same problem as Kurt in Florida “More importantly, one of the threaded collars broke while removing the nozzle head. I’m not too keen on draining the pool and doing a major repair here since I will likely have the pool re-surfaced in the next year or two and I’ll do it then.” on May 2, 2010. My system is pool valet. I have no idea of the age. I have been in the house 14 years.
I think I have found a reason for the bubbles coming from the MDX. If I restrict the return to the main pool slightly, the bubbles are nearly gone. Is it possible that the 3/4 pump exceeds the flow rate of the MDX which is causing the problem? Would a Paramount iJet fitting in the main pool also help?
Question about my pool with PCC2000 infloor system which I’m about to open (i moved in last year). Pool is operated by a single pump which I gather is somewhat unusual (but I digress). The system seems to work fine other than a leak around the valve unit lid where the pressure gauge screws in (small crack). I’ve been examining the water valves. I believe its a nine ports system with a six port and a four port. At least the bases are four port and six port but both the valve units are 6 port 004-302-4408-00 !. The ribs in the four port base are cut. One valve is dated 2009 and the other 2011 so they were replaced separately. I guess my question is was this done intentionally or in error? If in error, what will happen to the way the system operates – it seems to operate OK. If I were to replace the valve unit for the four port base would I get the four port valve (seems to be logical) or would I replace the valve unit with the same model (ie a 6 port valve unit)?
Also, regarding the valve units. The bearings to the main shaft seem a little loose – move up and down and in one case side to side. If I pull the shaft down and away the gears no longer mesh. Not sure if this is how the units runs. If the shaft is pulled up then the play is much less play and the gears are in no danger on becoming unmeshed. Is this wear that indicates the valve units needs replacing or nothing to worry about yet? Again, the system seems to run fine.
Hi Kurt. Huge help on this site and thanks for that. I have a PCC2000 6 port system installed 2005 and I noticed that 2 stems that do not go up fully (out of 4 that rotate that should). They only go up about 30-40%. I replaced the valve assembly 2 years ago and have replaced all the stems since as well. There is no debris in the stems as well. It is a 1 pump system which is also connected to a solar heater. I fear a pressure problem but I’m at wits end trying to solve it as all the parts currently in the pool are similar as to when it was working perfectly. Anything I can try to solve this riddle? Thanks again for the work you do here.
Hi Kurt.
I have a PCC2000 system installed about 4 years ago. Starting two days ago the heads quit popping up and the gauge shows no pressure. The dedicated pump has a slow return of water into the filter. All filters have been cleaned but the problem persists. Your help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Our MDX drain appeared to be clogged. We drained the pool and removed the cover but couldn’t get the fine dirt out. My husband removed the security screws but now can’t get them back in. We still weren’t able to get the dirt out of the drain. Any ideas would be very helpful.
It appears your pool pump requires service. One possibility may be that the pumps impeller may be clogged. It is not unusual, especially if you experience leaf drop into your pool, that some debris will bypass the skimmer baskets and pump baskets and make it’s way into the pumps impeller, preventing water from flowing through it properly.
Yes.
Pressure is the key here. I’m assuming you are not referring to the fixed nozzles, which operate separately from the rotating nozzles and are connected to a dedicated return line from your filtration system. Fixed nozzles always remain up during pump operation, should be pointed toward the debris drain (MDX), and operate at a lower flow rate vs. the rotating nozzles…approximately 15-20 gpm total for both nozzles.
If you have rotating nozzles connected to the paramount control valve not extending fully, then pressure on the paramount valve needs to be checked. you should have an operating pressure gauge on the top of the dome of the Paramount valve, and it should register a minimum of 16 psi and ideally 18-22 psi during full operation of each zone, which should last 40-50 seconds. There will be a drop in pressure while the valve is in transition from one zone to the next, and that transition should last about 5-10 seconds. Low pressure may be corrected by cleaning/servicing your filter, and making sure a bypass is installed around your solar heating system. Solar systems created significant back-pressure problems that will impede floor system performance unless a bypass is installed.
A six port module will work in a four port valve base. It will not transition water as efficiently to the 6 port valve due to the absence of a “connector” tube that actuates three zones simultaneously to send water to the six port valve. That said, functionally the 6 port module in the 4 port valve base will work properly.
I’m not sure what bearings you are referring to. There are no bearings in the gear assembly or gear shafts. The only balls, which look like large grey bearings, are part of the actuation mechanism for the pistons that open and close with water pressure, and those plastic bearings are loose. If the gears do not stay fully engaged when you spin them from the top with your fingers, then they may slip during normal operation and the module should be replaced.
Bubbles are a sign of air. There is no correlation between the setting of returns and whether air bubbles come from the MDX debris drain, which is a suction side device and has no connection to the pressure/return side of the system.
Stated another way, air is a sign of a leak in the system, unless you have an air inducing device on your pool like an ozone system.
Generally, a 3/4 hp pump would not exceed the flow capacity of a MDXR3 drain.
Paramount makes an easy to install retro fitting call “Pool Valet Retro” which inserts into the existing Pool Valet body, even of the threads are broken or stripped, and allows for the installation of our newer generation PV3 nozzle.
I apologize for the delay. It appears your canister was not installed per our instructions for vanishing edge basins which prescribes a modified plumbing technique for the 1 1/2 inch equalizer line you refer to in #3, whicn incorporates a feed line from the vanishing edge pump that helps elevate the water level in the canister above it’s internal lid. An oring is the only method to attempt to overcome this issue and maintain functionality of the Debris canister, unless you choose to plumb in internal bypass connecting the intake line from the drain (coming in from the side under the internal lid) to the discharge line at the bottom of the canister, which would eliminate the need for the internal lid to seal the connection,
yes
Thank you for the reply. According to the instructions for the retro-fitting, the pool needs to be emptied because the fitting needs to be glued (cemented). Is the a solution that does not require emptying the pool?
Thanks Kurt. No problem, you are just in tme for the season. Where can I find the instructions for installation of MDX and debris canister for vanishing edge basins? I have most of the plumbing exposed now so I should be able to correct it with a diagram os the correct configuration. Thanks again for your help. Peter
I have a pool with fountain and a 6 port PV3 system without a Debris Canister. The debris appears to be routed to the pump basket not the skimmer. My module is dated 9/11/06 (about a year older than the pool). The module diaphragms are sticking and I plan to order a new one. I also have two drains that comply with the Florida entrapment code. Two or three years ago I added a Hayward robotic pool cleaner hooked into one of the two skimmers because the floor system was creating piles and not sending the debris to the main drains. It was working fine with the main drains shut off and the remaining skimmer partially open. I also have a Pentair pump, Pentair salt water chlorinator and a Paramont ozone generator that have recently failed. Pentair says that my chlorinator should have had a bypass installed because of the floor system.
My original pool builder is out of business and last time I checked, Paramount had no local dealers. Can I contact someone that can give me some recommendations before I start all this work?
Dirk
Ihave your systems… do not know which one but pool was built in late 90’s early 2000.
Seems the heads pop up but do not go down. I pulled the head off the water valve and didn’t find anything out of sorts but couls not get the valve part out of the housing… the little pin with the cam at the center was a little loose and when the unit operated, there is a bit of a noise.
Seems there is reduced pressure also, pool at about 22 psi and the valve at about 15. What should i check, first, second, etc.
Thanks
Hi Kurt,
I have had a PCC2000 for 6 1/2 years. The valve quit cycling the zones properly, so I bought a replacement 6 port valve from a supply store. After installing it, I noticed 2 large heads come up in one zone. It didn’t do that before. I have 4 large heads + 3 small heads on the steps that come up in one zone + 4 small down jets in the deep end that come on in one zone for a total of 6 zones. 2 large heads should not be coming up at the same time and they are. Is this a sign of a defective valve that I should return? Or is there something else I can do to troubleshoot it?
Thanks for your help.
I have a PCC 2000 system that is about 4 years old. A couple of the O-rings on the popup nozzles have broken. Can I run the system without the O-rings? What is their main function?
kurt i have the pc2000 system with 2 pumps 1 for filter 1 for cleaning system.1 fixed nozzle at deep end of pool lost all pressure coming out.tried pushing it in and out to remove any debris,nothing .the other fixed nozzle works fine.any help would be nice thanks
You likely have some debris clogging the opening of that nozzle. You’ll need to use a Paramount PCC nozzle tool to remove that nozzle and clear out the debris before re-installing it.
The orings help seal the nozzle in the body which eliminates the chance that water will leak out from around the nozzle. This maximizes the flow of water through the nozzle and insures the best performance. It also helps prevent the nozzle from coming out of the body during operation.
Do both nozzles come up then retract at the same time? Or does one stay up at the same time. If you have a pressure gauge on the paramount valve, what is the pressure on that zone versus the pressure on the other zones. You could also remove the valve module and re-position it and see if the same two nozzles come up or if the system works properly, or if two other zones work together. You’ll want to verify that the module is a 6 port module as well. If you re-position the valve and two other zones work together, then the valve is likely malfunctioning.
You’ll need to remove the module from the valve base/housing to determine if the valve’s pistons are functioning properly. If any of them are not fully “drawn up” against the base plate of the module, in other words they are hanging down, then it is likely you’ll need a new module.
You have quite a lot going on there. You can contact Paramount’s main office (800-621-5886) and speak with the Tech department,and possibly get a referral from Paramount’s regional manager in Florida for a qualified company that can help properly troubleshoot your system.
You’ll need to contact Paramount’s main office and ask for the Tech department for this information. the number is 800-621-5886.
Draining the pool insures the most secure and long lasting glue joint.
At this point, I’d contact your builder or a qualified service technician to make sure the drain cover is properly attached and to further look into your drains functionality.
Kurt, Hoping you can help. I have a MDX pool drain and it became clogged some time over the winter. I’ve been trying a few things like a Drain-King, but with no luck. The water has finally warmed up enough where I could dive down into the deep end and take a look at the drain. Everything looked fine, but I went ahead and took off the cover over a series of many dives to unscrew the 3 phillips screws. The inside of the drain was full of all sorts of things. I cleaned out what I could, but the drain still appears to be clogged as I’m getting virtually no flow at the pump when I isolate to only pull water from the main drain. Not sure what it’s called that is secured with the security torx screws, but there is still a lot of leaves and things in there that I can’t get access to. Is there some trick to cleaning out these things? Do I need to remove the security screws to pull off the next layer of drain or are there better options?
Thanks.
Not sure if this is the right place to leave this question/concern. Here goes…
My 1995 pool having PCC 2000 cleaning system with booster pump and deck canister is being remodeled with new plaster. The main drain is being replaced, I am not confident in the PB choice for new main drain cover. The original drain cover was flat on the top and was raised about 1/2″ off the pool floor or drain collar.
The replacement covers I have seen and he’s shown me all have vents on the top and do not appear to allow debris to enter. I know new laws have resulted in drain cover designs but does anyone know of a drain cover that should be used? part #?
I don’t want to be brushing and skimming debris off the floor of my new pool remodel!
thanks in advance.
Thank you for your question on this…it is very important. You previous cover was not compliant with new government standards for drain design, so it is correct that your contractor wants to change the cover. However, they should consider and debris removing VGB (Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety ACT) compliant cover like Paramount’s “BuzzTop” debris channel drain. This could be installed during re-plaster and wouldn’t require extraordinary prep work to complete. Check it out at http://www.1paramount.com/products/buzztop.
Yes, your best bet would be to call a pool service professional who would need to use Torx T-25 security screwdriver to remove the main cover and then potentially use compressed air to blow out the debris from the debris canister in the deck or from the drain line at the equipment if a deck canister isn’t present. Please be sure all equipment is turned off should any work be done on the drain cover.
G’day Kurt
I’ve recently bought a house in Australia with an MDX drain as part or self-cleaning pool system.
Last week there was good pressure at the pool return until I cleaned out the leaf canister.
I forgot to tighten the air bleed screws on top of canister and failed repeated attempts to prime the system. My pool man came and turned the water valve to vacuum and told me the MDX drain was blocked (will cost $330 to clean)
I can’t understand how it could have been working so well last week and be suddenly blocked when the pool has been covered for some time.
If he’s right about the drain, could I save money and clear the MDX from the canister or from above the pool with compressed air?
Many thanks, Mick
Kurt, just bought a home with my first pool. It is approx. 15 years old and I have no prints available. I have figured out most of the layout, except all of the lines going back to the pool from filter. There are four and three are marked (1) Infloor cleaner (2) Spa water feature (3) Skimmer return and (4) is valved off and unmarked. Can you guess what it might be to? I have one skimmer, one debris canister, and an autofill.
Kurt, I have a 21 year old pool with Paramount down jets and DCC on the pool deck. Last year and this year I have noticed a lot of air is going into the pool as the water is cycled through the down jets. Also have pop ups on the floor in shallow end (one) and one on the slope to the deep end. I also lose suction when I am vacuuming the pool through the skimmer. I am not losing any water. Any idea where the air is coming from? I also notice that the pump seems to have trouble running for more than four hours without losing suction. I shut it off and it is fine for another four hours or so. I appreciate any thoughts. The pool was installed by Colleys Pools in Hamburg, NY.
Kurt, a little more information for you about my pool. There is a single pump. The water valve is a six zone with 3 down jets each for four of the cycles and the two floor jets individually. No problems other than I am replacing all of the down jet nozzles this year as the 21 years has taken its toll on the PVC. The debris canister lid is the old style and I am thinking of changing to the new style lid and replacing the tabs with the conversion ring. I don’t think the air is coming in from the main drain line into the canister. The pool operates at 20lbs of pressure and I backwash when it gets to 24lbs. I did replace the water valve last year as the original started to stick on one port. I thought 20 years was great for the original. I did keep the original cover but replaced the o-ring. Hope the additional information helps.
Please help. I have a debis canister which seems to be taking in air. I have had line leading to drain and pump tested and there are no leaks. It seems canister itself is leaking. I directly piped drain to pump and all is well. I also installed new MVFuse lid with retro fit ring and problem still presist .I found two seems within canister and installed a water grade epoxy and still no luck.
Any ideas I’m losing it over this problem. Thank you for your help
Could back pressure be the cause of a bad pop up valve module? I ask this because today the ball valve that’s located on the booster pump flew off and when I turn on/off the control valve for the pop up valves I notice the pump struggles and stops struggling when I shut off the pop up valve.
I have a question.. I have a pop up cleaner system and its been working great until these last couple months. For some reason the pop up heads don’t go back down, so all 12 heads pop up and stay up until the pump turns back off. So the heads don’t go down to rotate. Not sure what is wrong with all of them. My pool is only 4yrs old so i hope its nothing major. Thanks for your help!
Hi Kurt,
Recently bought a house ( vinyl pool built in 07) with a 6 port paramount system. I’ve been trying to get it up to speed as previous owners let it go a bit. After replacing the module, adding all the wall jets and canister basket, I’v noticed that all debris collects around main drain but it doesn’t suck it in. When I switch to only pull only from main drain, the pump loses prime. Makes me think it is somehow clogged, but I get very little leaves on property.
Is there anything you suggest try to resolve the issue?
Thanks in Advance!
-John
The plastic cap from my Paramount PCC2000 step nozzle 004-552-5032-01 has come off; I found it lying loose on the floor of the water feature. I pushed it back on, but it come right back off again. Do I need to order replacement caps? The nozzles work fine.
It sounds like you have a clogged drain. You should contact a pool service professional to diagnose the clog source and utilize a safe and effective technique to remove it.
Yes you’ll need to replace the cap. The cap is most likely cracked and will not stay on when re-installed.
can you please confirm what brand of infloor cleaning system you have in your pool?
you should not completely shut off the ball valve on the return side of any pump while the pump is running. This will cause a “dead head” situation which can damage both the pump and plumbing. That said, shutting off water flow to the valve module for the infloor system should not it any damage.
I presume that the balance line that allows water to stay flooded on top of the internal debris canister lid is functioning and that there is always 2-4 inches of water on top of that lid?
If so…and you are getting a build up of air underneath the internal canister lid, I would advise having a professional leak detection company troubleshoot this issue if they haven’t already.
have you checked your pump lid and fittings going into your pump. These can frequently be sources for air that do lead to leaks.
If one of the returns is marked “skimmer” I’m pretty sure you system is not Paramount. The possibilities for that extra return are many. It could simply be an auxiliary return that can be used to bypass excess water.
Frankly, I’d advise allowing a pool service professional diagnose and clear any blockages in your system. They will understand the correct amount of pressure to apply and when to stop in the event the blockage cannot be cleared using that technique.
Kurt, re your reply, “Yes you’ll need to replace the cap. The cap is most likely cracked and will not stay on when re-installed.” — can I buy these caps direct from Paramount? I didn’t see them from either of the two retailers referenced on the website.
Recently bought home with in floor cleaning system that has been disabled for many years. Today I dug up the 1993 AA Manufacturing 5 Port Top-Feed Water Valve which has been covered with dirt for many years. It does not work and feeds water through the same three pop ups all the time. I would like to know if I removed the module and parts inside of the valve and run it without replacing them, will it harm anything? will if send water through all the pop ups at the same time?
thanks for any advice
I have the 2000 system – 10 large and 13 small heads. Pool has a water feature from spa. The cleaning system is only running 8 lbs. It doesn’t seem like enough force of flow out of the heads. If we throttle the return in the spa, we can get it to about 12-14 but thats it, and then the spa return actually hurts legs due to force of flow. I have the PHPM 2.0 pump. Any ideas how to best set this up?
I have a pool built in 1997. How do I remove the pop up floor cleaners? I have many that stay up or partially up …. actually about 6 if you don’t count the main floor cleaners) I have just had one of my modules replaced ( I have 2! and I have not read about anyone else having 2!). I am not sure of all the correct words for all the parts, but from what I have read it seems the module is the part out of the pool that controls the pop ups in the pool. The pool company that I am working with wants me to remove one so we can see why it is not going down. Or where can we get the tool to remove the heads? Bottom line is that we are afraid, given the age of the pool, that the heads need to be replaced. I have tried to call the original pool installer and he never returns my call. I do not have the layout to the pool.
Any help would be appreciated.
Becky H.
Hi I have a 6 port pv3 system. I replaced the module 3 months ago and every thing has been fine. I now noticed the heads were not popping up anymore so I checked all filters, and salt cell etc and all are clean. I then took off the lid to the module and pulled it out, then put it back in turned on and the pop ups in one section came on fine for about 30 seconds, then shut off and the pressure gauge on both the module and filter (cartridge style) went way high. I repeated the same thing and the pop ups came on again and then shut off and pressure went high. I then decided I must have a bad module and got a new one today, put it in, and exact same problem. I have built in spa that sits a little higher than the pool, and it seems like the pop ups start on the same section each time and when they go to the second position (spa) it wont work. I also noticed the last few weeks the spa is loosing water when I shut off pool, and the level goes down over night, but then starts right up again and fills when pump comes on, not sure if any of this is related? I have always had the valve about half way between skimmer and drain and tried moving to just drain, but still nothing.
also I have the MDX drains in both pool and spa, and system was all installed in 2008. Last night I figured out that I could take out module and flip position and get several of the sections to work properly but when it comes back to switch to the spa pop ups, it all shuts down again. I removed all of the heads in spa one by one and they are all fine and replaced in same place. I also ran system without module in at all and all pop ups come up. I am in Phoenix, and also I have seen you mention a canister that stores debris, but I cant find one? You also mentioned a check valve for the spa, where would you find that?
Today wondering if I should remove the drain covers and see if there is something blocking? Any special tool besides a screw driver?
Hi Kurt,
I am trying to buy online a Paramount module 6 port (004-302-4408-00) to be delivered in Spain, but all the websites I could find seem to limit the sale to the US. Where can I buy it to be delivered in Spain ? What price should I be expecting to pay ? I mean, if you have a catalog price policy for Europe.
Thanks for your answer and congratulations for the block.
I have a PCC 2000 system. A few months ago the dome cover broke & I replaced it. Today I had water near my system and the base the mechanism sits in has a crack that is leaking and needs to be replaced. It seems to be glued to the tubes that it sits on. How do I replace it?
Thanks
I suspect by now that you probably figured you that the check valve installed in the line going from the Paramount valve to your spa to prevent backflow from the spa to the pool is likely installed backwards. If the check valve is visible and above ground below where the Paramount valve is, you can unscrew the clear top of the check valve and rotate it the other direction, making sure that the arrow points toward the flow to the spa and not back toward the Paramount Valve.
you’ll need to remove the current valve base and install a new one (005-302-4032-03 6 PORT BASE 2″
). There is a plumbing guide piece from Paramount. that will allow the 7 pipes to remain in proper alignment.004-251-8250-00 WATER VALVE PLUMBING ALIGNMENT TOOL
A two valve system is generally designed to operate 9 zones, therefore is called a nine zone valve. One valve has a 4 port module inside of it, and the other has a 6 port module (see the valve module alignment guide on the main technical page of this blog). If the nozzles have not been serviced in many years, meaning they’ve not been removed and cleaned, and given the age of the pool, they may require replacement to function properly. You won’t know this until you are sure that the Paramount valves have properly installed and functioning modules in them, and see that water is cycling to all the zones sequentially.
To know for sure if removing the module and parts from an A&A valve will be okay to do, I’d reach out to A&A Manufacturing to confirm. Generally, you should be able to remove the guts of the valve, as you could with a Paramount valve, and send water to all the zones at once. There’ll be not cleaning function but circulation will be enhanced.
Paramount Pool and Spa Systems has a division in Spain. Please contact them via this information:
C/ Sant Celoni, 4, 08450,
Llinars del Valles (Barcelona)
Phone: +34 937 812 013
Fax: +34 937 812 070
Sales:
info@paramountpools.eu
I’m a little unclear an a couple of details I’ll need to help you. What is the pressure on your filter when you floor system valve is running at 12-14 psi? Are the jets you are referring to in the spa that hurt your legs the PCC2000 nozzles, or are you referring to the spa jets?
I was referring to the actual pool return, which comes through the spa and overflows to the pool. The manufacturer fixed the problem by installing an additional pump to run the nozzles. This has boosted pressure but the problem is now he has it piped from floor drain to pump back to nozzles. Water does not pass through filter so small sand or dirt goes through bag catcher and just recirculates back into pool. This does not sound like a good fix to me
Cliff
I’ve skimmed a lot of the blog but didn’t see this previously covered, so my apologies if this is a repeat. We have a MDX drain as part of our system which also has a second drain-like anti-entrapment relief on the wall of the deepend. The pool was just built in spring 2013 in the Baltimore area. My question relates to blowing out the drain line and creating an airlock during winterization. I used a 2″ PVC threaded coupling where the drain enters the in-deck canister along with a blowout plug. Air initially comes out of the main drain then erupts out of the second relief on the wall. Is that sufficient for winterization? Both drains a well below the water line and I’d imagine well below the freeze line, but I want to make certiain. Thanks.
Hello Kurt, I hope you can offer some advice.
My pool has recently had the pumps relocated.
The pool is rectangular, it has 14 in floor nozzles, the two nearest the middle of the pool are fixed. There are two pumps, one for the filter and chlorinator and one for the in floor cleaners. There are two water valves, 9 ports I think.
I understand that the 2 fixed nozzles are not controlled by the water valves. Only the 12 rotating nozzles are contolled by the water valves and pop up and down in a cycle.
SInce pump relocation, the two fixed nozzles do not pop up at all, the poolie that did the job has plumbed them into a suction line, so instead of being pushed up, they are being sucked down.
The way I understand it, this problem can be fixed by reconnecting the pipe to the fixed nozzles so that water is streamed with positive pressure to pop the nozzles up.
My question is: which pump line should I plumb it into? Should I plumb it into the filter pump or should I plumb it into the pump powering the water valves and the 12 in floor pop up nozzles?
Cheers
Stephen Prance
I have pool valet system that is 13 years old. It has been working fine, then all of a sudden when turning valve from pool back to cleaning all the heads came up at once. I tried turning off and on but to no avail, heads all up. It appears that the module is not spinning.
Hi Kurt. I have pine straw clogging the main drain of the PCC 2000. How can I clear it of debris without calling in a diver with a CO2 tank who charges 150 clams?!?
Thank you,
DeMarias Sojka
What procedure should I following after re-plastering the pool for in-floor cleaner startup?
Bob, Hopefully all of your nozzles were removed prior to replastering your pool. First you’ll need to start up your equipment, making sure your filter is clean and allowing your circulation system operate properly while you get your pool’s water chemistry in check. Then you should clear out the lines feeding your infloor system by operating your pump for the infloor system, with the valve module installed, but before re-installing your nozzles. You should have a copy of your infloor system plan to know where each nozzle orifice goes into your pool, but if you don’t please refer to the technical section of my blog for proper nozzle sizing based on how many nozzles are on each zone. Use a Paramount Small Nozzle tool to install the nozzles.
Unfortunately if your drain is clogged you need to have a pool service professional clear it out so as not to risk doing damage to your plumbing. Please be sure, once the drain is free of debris, that you always operate your MDX drain system at high speed during the fall and winter leaf/pine drop season and keep your debris canister bag/basket cleaned out frequently to reduce the risk of a clogged drain line. Also remember to keep 70-80 percent of your pump suction dedicated to the mdx drain system.
If you haven’t determined this already, it is likely that your valve module has one or more failed pistons, as well as gears that are no longer engaging or rotating properly. Your best bet is to purchase a new Paramount water valve module and once installed, clean it at least annually to ensure a long life.
I apologize for the delay getting your your question Stephen…hopefully you’ve determined by now that the fixed nozzles should always be operated off of the filtration pump.
I am in the process of having a new pool built with the PV3 system and have a design question regarding check-valves. I see that the plan requires an inline check-valve to be placed between 6-port valve distribution system and the raised spa .. the superintendent on the build seems to think a check-valve at the spa return is sufficient. I have had a number of incorrect plumbing issues thus far, and subsequent failed city inspections … as such, I am reluctant to take his word on this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
John
If in fact your spa is raised above the level of the pool, and is sharing water with the pool, in other words it is connected to the pool, then an in-line check valve is required for the zone of the PV3 system that is going to the spa.
Thanks! That is what I thought. Yes the pool is raised and connected to the pool via a negative edge.
Hi Kurt. I have a paramount 6 valve module and took it apart and cleaned it just yesterday. I’ve put it all back together and notice that it all seems to work ok with all the jets coming up on their cycle but at the end of the first cycle ( once they’ve all come up once) them they all come up and they all stay on. Have you got any ideas on went this would be happening?
Have replaced our 6 port module twice in the last week. Both worked for about a day and then we see multiple pop up zones cycling at the same time. Cleaning the module does not fix the problem and tech support told us to return the module again. Our Leslie’s pool store told us this is happening to other customers as well. Is there a manufacturing or lot problem with the modules? How can we get a reliable part now?
Before I can help diagnose your module issues I will need a bit more information. Many external factors are possibly contributing to your problems that I need to understand to better assist you:
1) which paramount system do you have? How old is your pool? What area of the country is your pool located?
2) does your paramount system work off of the main filtration pump or a separate, dedicated pump?
3) if on a dedicated pump, where does that pumpnget it’s water from (drains on floor, wall or from a skimmer)?
4) when working properly, what is the pressure on the gauge on top of the Paramount water valve read?, how long on each zone?
I suspect there is a debris or flow related issue causing the modules to fail as this kind of experience doesn’t normally occur without a cause. The module failures are likely a symptom of a different problem which I hope we can figure out together.
I look forward to your reply
You likely have our PCC2000 system which includes 2 “fixed” nozzles on either side of the mdx debris drain. These fixed nozzles operate as a return on your filter pump and are not part of the rotating nozzles that are controlled by the water valve.
What is the pressure on the valve when it is operating properly?
Hi Kurt,
I have a 1.5 HP pump which sucks leaves from the centre of the pool to the leave basket, water then continues through the pump to the chlorinator and sand filter and then returns.
I have cleaned out the leaf basket and backwashed the filter, the pump bowl is full and the suction is strong in the pipe at pool centre.
But – leaves do not seem to be sucked in very well, quite often they just float on past without being sucked in.
Any ideas? Do I need a more powerful pump? Different cover to make more venturi effect?
Cheers
Steve
Hi Kurt,
I have a 6 port system that is operating generally well but when the module shifts to different zones I get air coming into main filter basket( primarily the 2 slope nozzels) and blowing air in pool. Other zones seem fine with no air circulating.
Let me know your thoughts on resolving this issue.
Thanks in advance!
John